Originally Posted By: tonyc

Here's the thing. Republicans did offer various "alternatives", but they were all "here are our ideas, take them or leave them" proposals. That's how they're used to negotiating, and they haven't adjusted to life in the minority. The minority party in Congress doesn't get to set the starting point for negotiations.

Republicans were more than welcome to provide serious ideas and proposals for changes to the bills as they were being drafted in committee, but that's not what happened. Instead, all of their proposals, including the Paul Ryan plan that got a lot of attention at the end, involved tearing the Democratic bills up and starting over with a purely Republican bill.


No truly universal coverage. No public option. No immediate effect on the employer-based system, and only a moderate effect on it a decade from now.


There is none of that yet. Obama and the rest have said that's what they want and that this is just the beginning. They've definitely laid the groundwork to make this happen all on its own with all the onerous regulations and profit squeezing.

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If the "free market insurance system" wasn't leading to exploding costs, maybe there'd be no need to reform it. This isn't just about covering the 30-40 million without coverage, it's about putting downward pressure on costs for those who do have coverage. Tell me how the current free market system is working when costs are skyrocketing. Or if you acknowledge it's not working to control costs, tell me how you'd prefer to control them.


I think the insurance industry needs to get back to actual insurance and doling out payments for the truly unexpected rather than paying for routine office visits and minor medical procedures. Tort reform needs to be in place to reduce defensive medicine and we need to nationalize the insurance market rather than limit it to state by state offerings.

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The bill's cost over ten years, negating cost savings, is around a trillion dollars. With the low-ball estimate of 30 million uninsured, that's around $3500 per year per uninsured. Show me the insurance plan for *healthy* folks that costs that much, let alone a plan that someone with a pre-existing condition could get. Your statement has no basis in fact.

I've never paid that for private insurance. Sorry... You know I've never been that great at math, but using your assumption is roughly a 10th of the advertised cost of this bill.


Originally Posted By: maczrool
There are already plenty of programs to treat people with chronic health conditions and perform general health care anyway.

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Name them.


As I've stated in other threads, I used to work at an HIV clinic. The vast majority of those patients were free care. They weren't out in the gutters dying as Obama and the dems would lead you to believe. The clinic was funded patially by the state and partially with federal grants. One of these was called the Ryan White grant.


Originally Posted By: maczrool
I can only hope some of our states with some balls decide to opt out of this disgrace of a bill that has been forced on us.


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Last I checked, the team that ran on health-care reform won overwhelming majorities in congress. If people didn't want it "forced" on them, they would have voted for the other team.

And last I checked, this BBS' residents not withstanding, the majority of people are against this bill. They voted for reform but like this.

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Oh, and your point about doctors hating this bill and wanting to leave the medical profession because of it? The AMA supported the bill.

This may surprise you, but not all doctors share its position.

Stu
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