The nature of the Empeg display makes it not so good in direct sunlight. Have you guys tried coating the display or texturing it to see if it would scatter ambiant light and make the display easier to read in the sun?

We have an optical coating company working on this at the moment. They should be getting back to us next week with eight different coating options - the trade off will be between opacity and the anti-reflection effect.

The panels will also need a hard coat, to prevent the AR coat from getting scratched.

If we come up with something that is satisfactory, it will be too late for the next 1000 (maybe 2000) players, but you will be able to buy a replacement screen if you want one (I'll see what I can do about a discount, but they're very expensive anyway). We didn't think it was worth waiting for the AR results at the cost of a month delay in production.

Rob

Hi there !

Rob, AR is *very* important ...
I got my red display today ( thx ) and it is not usable in my convertible ...
Even cloudy light makes the display unreadable, i long for my old mk1 display, which was not good, but much better AR then now ...

This is sad, but true ...

I hope i can find a spray or foil or whatever to solve this ...

Nils

I really have no trouble with REFLECTIONS on my mark 1. Sometimes, if the sun is hitting the display directly, the sunlight directly hitting the actual PIXELS of the VFD display washes it out, but that's different than reflections.

How would an anti-reflective coating help that? And anyway, the thing already has anti-reflective coating and is already more readable than most in-car displays I've seen.

___________
Tony Fabris

The Mk.1 has an AR coating - the Mk.2 doesn't, because it's a lot more involved to coat an injected part rather than a machined panel. We've found a company that say they can do it, but it's taken a while. Hopefully we'll get the ball rolling soon now.

Rob

Cool Rob !
Keep us updated ...

And ... YES the Mk1 display was ahead of most other display, the Mk2 in its current version is about the worse i've ever seen ( JUST in respect to AR, otherwise its great of course ).

Nils

I too would have to agree that the MK.II display really sucks in regards to reflection. The MK.I really worked well. AR is very important to a unit such as this, as you need to be able to get through menus and such to pick music.

Right now, the MK.II really sucks durring the day, even with my sun roof closed. If it is bright and sunny outside, it is virtually impossible to see the MK.II display!

I would have to say that is would be worth another month delay in production to get a proper display! (of course, that is easy for me to say because I have been gifted enough to get a MK.II But, I really feel that it would be beneficial to wait another month if you can get a better display!)

Chris Zimmerman - #427
zimmerman@simpledialup.com
MK.I - 00028
MK.II - 060000051

I hadn't realized that the Mk2 faceplates were lacking the AR coating that the Mk1 had.

Isn't there some kind of a way to get a spray-on AR coating? Heck, it seems to me that plain-old Testors flat finish clear spray paint would be better than nothing. Anyone willing to try that on their old (already replaced) Mk2 panel?

___________
Tony Fabris

We didn't realise it was such a problem. There have only been rare occassions when I haven't been able to see the display in our A-Class (and we have actually had some sun here recently).

From a commercial perspective, delaying a million pounds worth of cashflow for the AR results would have been hard to justify. We know that delays are very frustrating for you, but imagine how we feel :-)

Anyway, it's in hand, and I'll let you know as soon as we get some coated panels back from the lab.

Rob

Hmm interesting, in what kind of shops would i search for that spray ?? I am pretty sure it is sold under a different brand in Germany, any hints ? i am willing to try it ...

Nils

And I can assure you rob, if you had delayed because of that, many people here would be upset

As it is I'm gonna have to drive home from school for some weekend just to get the installation done, but at least I'll have my empeg in September rather than October.

DiGNAN

A/R Coating is usally applied by machines in a dust free environment. I don't think a spray would be available. A/R Coating usally scratches extremely easily - all you have to do is look at it the wrong way and it scratches. I think rob was saying that they had to put a hard coat over it. All of this will be pretty expensive to do. I have heard of a company that can put a titanium A/R coating on thats a few nanometers thick - you can scratch it with steel wool all day and not scratch it - but it would melt the poly.

Sean

in what kind of shops would i search for that spray ??

It's just dullcote for plastic models. Hobby shops that sell model cars and airplanes would have it. Or you can follow the link I gave in that message and order it online.

But I dunno if it would do any good. It would probably make the display all gross and blurry. It was just a silly thought.

___________
Tony Fabris

We got some AR coated panels back from the lab today. I'm slightly suspicious of the coating, which looks like it should be fragile, but does actually seem to be very tough. If you wipe it with a finger it marks very easily, but cleaning it down with a cloth brings it up like new again.

With regard to the AR properties, I'm going to get some current panels coated (we coated the old dark blue ones this time) and drive around in the sun for a few days. One level of coating that we have sampled seems to be approximately equivalent to the Mk.1 panel, and the other is more effective (but affects appearance of the display to a greater extent).

I'll keep you posted!

Rob

FWIW: It's impossible to see/read the display on a particularly bright sunny day here in Arizona (ok, ok, ok - 'most' days).
'Shuffle' is your friend.
'Shuffle' is good.
:)

One level of coating (..) seems to be approximately equivalent to the Mk.1 panel, and the other is more effective (but affects appearance of the display to a greater extent).

Don't be too careful with the coatings. I have the red display now, and while it is nicely bright it also shows the components very clearly. As a result, the 'real' size of the display is very prominent and, as a result, the graphics no longer float in the (much larger) oval space of the front, but are confined to the original rectangular space of the display. I really liked funnel-web seemingly filling up the entire front area.

When deciding on transparency, try to make it just dark enough to hide the unlit parts of the display

Also, any chance you can give two shine components a dark colour? The little gizmo that houses the IR eye (on the right) and the the 8 or so shiny triangles that run down the left hand side of the display (power lines?)

Henno
mk2 nr 6

I didn't think you could drive from England to Florida.

___________
Tony Fabris

...no, but he could drive to fed-ex, ship it to florida, and let me take over from here:)
-mark
ps - i'm glad I have not-so-legal tint on my car now:)


...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

Don't be too careful with the coatings. I have the red display now, and while it is nicely bright it also shows the components very clearly.

Yeah! What he said!

It was a real shock going from the original dark blue to the red. I think the red is necessarily lighter because there's so little red light emitted by the VFD. A question for empeg et al.: Are the "final" displays in the other colors better at hiding the front panel componentry? I might either make a mask for the main part of the display (the bits visible through the right side window above the knob don't bother me nearly as much) or put up with a color mismatch. (Green is always cool. ;)

It's too bad, because the red is a perfect match with the BMW instruments.

I'd go blue, but the sunglasses I wear to drive have amber lenses...the original display was effectively off with those shades on.

-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39

I wonder if coating is the only option? I had invisioned a textured front face, that would both reflect glare and prevent smudges and fingerprints. Ever look into something like that?

That is effectively what the coating does, but it allows finer control than texturing the tool (by sandblasting). If we changed the tool we would still have to coat the panels anyway, with a hard coat to prevent scratching.

Rob

The blue and green panels pretty much mask everything behind - the red and amber panels don't. We tried darker red and amber tones, but then the display got too dim. We actually started out with lighter tones before we reached the final decision.

I did consider getting the IR receiver can blacked out with marker, but we're worried about over liberal application covering the actual lens! We can't mask the heater wires to the side of the VFD as they're actually inside the display, and masking the top of the display would ruin the viewing angle.

I use an amber player most of the time, and I've found that you don't really notice what's underneath the panel too much, unless the sun is shining onto it. The AR coat should help with this.

Rob

We tried darker red and amber tones, but then the display got too dim

OK. If you tried this before, there's little point in doing this again.
Also it is very close to BMW red - looks real nice.

We can't mask the heater wires to the side of the VFD VFD as they're actually inside the display
How hot does the display get? Could I stick some tape over the left edge, or paint it black ? In the BMW that I drive, the empeg is pretty high up in the dash and these heater-wire connectors reflect any daylight.

Can live with it, tough. Just curious if there's anything simple to make things better


Henno
mk2 nr 6

You can put tape on, although the display does get warm and the tape will probably need to be replaced periodically. This will, however, reduce the viewing angle because the wires (and pixels) are at the back of the display, whilst the tape will be at the front.

Rob

You can put tape on (..) will, however, reduce the viewing angle

Thanks, I'll try that
Good week-end to all of you in Cambridge

Henno
mk2 nr 6