I'm new to this board and just got around to installing hijack today. I tried making a few boot images with just a pack of cigarettes I had laying on my desk. I'd like some opinions about them, not necesarly the content but the quality.




http://www.gtahq.com/jason/riocar/marlborobox.raw


http://www.gtahq.com/jason/riocar/marlborobox2.raw

Take care not to use these in Belgium.

Rob

Out of curiosity, Why not?

The Belgian govenment in their infinite wisdom decided on a law that forbids every kind of advertising for smoking products. It's for this reason we'll probably also won't have a Formula1 championship in Belgium this year, because most of the sponsors there are from smoking products companies and they really don't care for the new law.

I myself, though I am very much against smoking and think it is a disgusting habit, don't think this law is a good thing. I don't think this national ban on smoking advertising will stop anyone from smoking. Politicians are blind if they think it will. For one, advertising does not stop at the borders. To give just one example : probably 90% of all tv channels that are on the cable here are foreign stations, which are not subjectable to the new law. Same goes (to a lesser degree) for magazines that are sold here.

That and the fact that I don't believe anyone ever started smoking because they thought the commercials looked nice. They did because of their sociological interactions with other people. (admit it : most of you started smoking because one of your friends or your whole group of friends did) Commercials only support smoking behaviour. I don't believe they create it and thus they can't also make it go away if they are forbidden.

Ah, that's assinine. They banned tobacco ads on TV here (the US) and it hasn't done a thing except save the tobacco companies from spending money on TV ads that won't alter things. They also caused a HUGE increase in the number of billboard/magazine ads, which I percieve as an eyesore.

not necesarly the content but the quality.

If I am any sort of example, some members of this BBS can not always be relied upon to stay on topic -- tend to wander off on our own agendal tangents. In fairness, I'll try to indicate that so that you can skip those parts if you like....

Quality? Well, I'm not much of an expert on visuals, so I don't think I have much to say on that score.

[RANTANGENT]

Man, the content, though. Eeeeeewe!

Many of the original Marlboro Men -- those Stetson-wearing, horse-riding studs -- have died from emphysema and lung cancer. It is amazing, though, just how persistent a grip the brand they built has on the collective tobacco psyche. I mean, Marlboro was a low-selling girlie PM brand until those cowboys came along. Now, look at them. Formula One, logo clothing and ballcaps! They is everywhere! Oh, and there are reports that while the original cowboys died clutching their oxygen cannulas in the West, PM hired some new cowboys to ride the herd into the East.

I'm sorry that Belgium is missing a Grand Prix this year, but I salute their decision. Just think, if FIA sticks to its EU-driven decision, there will be no tobacco advertising starting in 2006 and it will be a level playing field (that is, of course, if the tobacco industry fails to get the FIA to overturn that ban).

Man, I was heartbroken to see Peugeot strike a deal with Marlboro in WRC for 2003. How can I root for them? The logo pollutes what *was* a beautiful car. Like they weren't competitive and needed the money!! They did it just to keep Marlboro money out of a lesser team's hands (Corrado Provera, if you are reading this then let me tell you that you are a souless creep!).

But I digress from my digression. I smoked a pack and a half a day of Marlboros for 14 years starting at age 13. Until I die I will remember the precise date, time, and location where I smoked my last one 23 years ago. To Lectric's point, did advertising have anything to do with me starting? Well, I don't rightly remember (Hey, I was 13!).

I did smoke that brand faithfully, but it wasn't too long before I really wanted to quit, but couldn't find a way (this was a particular bitch when the Army PX would sell me a carton for $1.50!), and I only quit after a long, long struggle. OK, I was faithful insofar as I was really, really hooked, but would I have ever thought of wearing a Marlboro ballcap? This is what I don't get. Most folks who smoke really want to quit, yet some are willing to provide free advertising for their oppressor?

The absolute effect of advertising bans may not yet be very well understood. As compared to things like raising prices (which in a recent study here in Washinton State seem to have a definite effect), maybe advertising bans don't accomplish as much. I don't have a problems with them, though. I *do* have a problem with a 12 year-old standing on a stage watching the New Marlboro Men -- Richard Burns, Marcus Gronholm, Gilles Pannizzi, or Harri Rovanpera -- ride their steeds by and perhaps be seduced into the conclusion that Marlboro just *might* be cool.

[/RANTANGENT]

...And the LARGE increase of smoking in PG-13 movies.

Spa has been confirmed dropped in 2003. In 2006 tobacco advertising will be banned in all European countries so the teams will need some new (less lethal) sponsors. F1 were upset that Belgium couldn't wait until then.

Rob

I wonder... if the anti-tobacco alliance or whatever they call themselves were to start a campaign claiming that their eco-saboteurs had infiltrated the tobacco companies, and had placed an instantly lethal dose of potassium cyanide in one out of every 10,000 cigarettes...

Do you think it would have an effect on the number of cigarettes sold and consumed?

Tobacco is amazing -- truly it must be the only product legally sold in America (other than handguns) that, when used as intended, kills the user.

tanstaafl.

Maybe I'm missing something, but last time I checked, hand guns were intended to kill the person on the other side of the hand gun... They're not sold for suicide.

As an anti-smoker, I have to say I hate anti-smoking comericals. All they do is give it that same "i'm going to live forever" appeal that teenagers are looking for. Most smokers know tabacco companies are evil anyways... I'm not sure what the right way to market the message to teenagers, but it's still certainly an unsolved problem. (Don't get me started on the pot-causes-terrorism adds)

Matthew

Tobacco is amazing -- truly it must be the only product legally sold in America (other than handguns) that, when used as intended, kills the user.


What about bullets?
And someone should teach users which way to point handguns

I'm a smoker and I think there should be a world-wide ban on all tobacco and everything related to it.

I'm not a smoker and find it repulsive

I find the stupidist part of the whole tobacco debate is how it's legal, taxes are collected on it (lots of taxes), the farmers are even subsidzed but then the government sues the tobacco companies and tries to ban the stuff everyplace. If they are going to sue them and ban the crap from everywhere it should be illegal. But I want less government not more and prohibition worked so well (yeah right)

I'll go out on a limb here, I like the logo. And I can't wait to get my Marlboro tent I sent away for last month

[rant] It's fine to promote drinking, which kills quite a few people from complications and drunk drivers but god forbid we be allowed to smoke. I for one quit going to baseball games when they banned smoking in the seats at an outdoor stadium. It was ok for the jerks next to be to be insulting and drunk and knock beers on me but I sure wasn't allowed to offend them by smoking next to them. [/rant]

Insults and beer stains can't kill you. Tobacco smoke can.

Drunk drivers can. Has anyone ever been killed by someone driving under the influence of a cigarette?

The environment can kill you also but most of us don't live in plastic bubbles because of it.

But drunk driving is illegal and the environment is unavoidable.

Mind you, I'm not saying that annoying drunks aren't more immediately annoying than smokers.

Smoking isn't illegal yet everywhere and you can avoid being around it. And being illegal doesn't stop very many people from driving drunk. I just get tired of people saying it's such a disgusting habit, there are many things people do in public that others find disgusting.

Oh, nevermind.

Well, most baseball stadiums (your original example locale) have assigned seating, so I can't avoid being near a smoker if one is near me. And the fact that people don't pay attention to the law and the fact that it's barely enforced doesn't make drunk driving any less illegal or dangerous.

It is a disgusting habit, but that's not the reason it's banned in public places. It's banned because it kills people who don't intentionally use it.

And, as Steve Martin said, ``Mind if I fart?''

I wonder... if the anti-tobacco alliance or whatever they call themselves were to start a campaign claiming that their eco-saboteurs had infiltrated the tobacco companies, and had placed an instantly lethal dose of potassium cyanide in one out of every 10,000 cigarettes...

Do you think it would have an effect on the number of cigarettes sold and consumed?

I kinda doubt it. I have met two people who set themselves ablaze when making the decision to have a cigarette even though they were tied to an oxygen cylinder.

Of course these folks were seriously addicted and didn't have much to lose. The cyanide campaign might have more of an impact on the newbies!

As an anti-smoker, I have to say I hate anti-smoking comericals. All they do is give it that same "i'm going to live forever" appeal that teenagers are looking for. Most smokers know tabacco companies are evil anyways... I'm not sure what the right way to market the message to teenagers, but it's still certainly an unsolved problem.

You can join a whole bunch of PhD behavioral psychologists in not knowing what the right message is for teenagers!

FWIW, I will say that some of the common wisdom doesn't always hold true. Like "pressuring someone to quit doesn't help". I quit precisely because of a lot of friendly pressure. Emphasis on friendly.

I find the stupidist part of the whole tobacco debate is how it's legal, taxes are collected on it (lots of taxes), the farmers are even subsidzed but then the government sues the tobacco companies and tries to ban the stuff everyplace. If they are going to sue them and ban the crap from everywhere it should be illegal. But I want less government not more and prohibition worked so well

Absurd, isn't it? Subsidies and all of that. Says something about vested regional interests. One thing that ticks me off is some of the huge state tobacco settlements (ostensibly to recover health care costs) being siphoned off to pay for unrelated programs.

I'd agree, though, with your end conclusion. Prohibition nevers seems to provide an answer -- imagine how peeved Laura would be!! -- but the approach that seems to work (and Laura isn't obliged to like it either) is taxation/regulation -- sin taxes, more or less.

Has there been a documented case of second hand smoke killing anyone? Then again, Living in most major cities will do the same things to your lungs and that doesn't seem to stop people.

OK, I'm a smoker, but let's set one thing clear, if someone asks me politely, I have no compunction whatsoever about putting it out. I do not smoke in other peoples cars, even with permission UNLESS they are also a smoker. What I DO hate is people that make some snide remark purposely loud enough for me to hear and hope that'll shame me into snuffing out or going away. My typical response in that situation is to start chain smoking and follow them around for the next half hour or so. I guess I'm one of those people who values respect. Treat me with respect and I'll reciprocate. Treat me with disdain and I'll behave likewise. Same goes for banging on the wall in an apartment. Is it REALLY so hard to knock on my door and ask politely for me to turn down whatever I'm doing? OK, I'm done, and I need a smoke.

Mason

I'll go out on a limb here, I like the logo. And I can't wait to get my Marlboro tent I sent away for last month

You're not out on a limb. You're just saying what you think.

I want to say that I don't want to succumb to generalizations. I remember some pleasurable aspects of smoking. And there are folks out there who thoroughly enjoy smoking, who are glad that PM invented Marlboros, and who will never in 110 years experience the really shitty, painful things that make tobacco/cigarettes such an evil, evil thing.

[rant] It's fine to promote drinking, which kills quite a few people from complications and drunk drivers but god forbid we be allowed to smoke.

I wouldn't dispute the adverse health effects of excessive drinking or negligent intoxication, but they aren't obligatorily tied to beer/wine/spirits. Also, we're finding that a glass of wine/beer with dinner can be outright good for you, something that I don't think will ever be said about cigarettes!

I for one quit going to baseball games when they banned smoking in the seats at an outdoor stadium. It was ok for the jerks next to be to be insulting and drunk and knock beers on me but I sure wasn't allowed to offend them by smoking next to them.

Uh, two wrongs don't make a right or something like that? It was *not* OK for them to knock beers on you. You may be mildly interested to know that I stomped out of the last baseball game I ever attended (in 1992) after having a drunken yahoo tip a super-size beer doen my back. I considered starting a fistfight or having he and his two drunken cronies arrested, but then I said "Naw, who needs the frickin' Mariners?". I don't think I'd fare very well in the presence of football hooligans!

Has there been a documented case of second hand smoke killing anyone? Then again, Living in most major cities will do the same things to your lungs and that doesn't seem to stop people.

Leaving aside a bunch of bad things like asthma and emphysema, let's take something pretty pathologically objective like squamous cell lung cancer (that is very closely tied to smoking in our world).

Secondhand smoke-wise, you can always find someone who contracted SCLC (or asthma or emphysema or something ) who never smoked or who was not exposed to secondhand smoke. Likewise you can find folks who contracted those bad things and who *were* exposed to tobacco.

It's the old bell-curve thing, though. It isn't what happens in any single case. It is about what the risk is for an overall population in what epidemiologists (I used to be one) call "relative risk"

It is in the interest of tobacco companies to poke holes in causative implications based in the same old "My Uncle Charlie smoked until he was 110!" basis, but it belies the really nasty [censored] that befalls their customers when you look across the whole population of their customers.

Anyhow, the overall bad effects of secondhand smoke are decently well established (look here for starters), are becoming even more well established, and I think I can safely say that most flight attendants are *really* glad you can no longer smoke on their airplanes!

I considered starting a fistfight or having he and his two drunken cronies arrested

I've had to pick up friends from the hospital several times after they got drawn into a fight with a drunken person, or a group of the drunk's friends after my friends 'won' the fight they didn't pick in the first place. Myself, I've managed to avoid getting into any such fights, I find it easier to leave humiliated than to end up in a hospital.

Oh, and I lost one good friend due to a drunk driver, and have another friend who lost a parent...

On the positive side, nobody I know has died or ended up in a hospital as a result of second hand smoke. So right now I actually do consider the effects of drinking on others more dangerous than second-hand smoke. Maybe the balance will change as I get older, although I hope not. Now I have to find that piece of wood to knock on.

I find it easier to leave humiliated than to end up in a hospital.

Yup, being humilated generally requires *way* fewer stitches!!

Oh, and I lost one good friend due to a drunk driver, and have another friend who lost a parent...

On the positive side, nobody I know has died or ended up in a hospital as a result of second hand smoke. So right now I actually do consider the effects of drinking on others more dangerous than second-hand smoke. Maybe the balance will change as I get older, although I hope not. Now I have to find that piece of wood to knock on.

Don't knock too hard. No way do I want to minimize the tragedies that result from drunk driving, and, yes, I can believe that it would be seen as a more immediate problem in the 20s and 30s given the statistics.

On average, bad smoking-related things like emphysema/COPD generally won't kick in until later, but that isn't an absolute. I remember a guy -- 27? 28? -- who wandered into our ER complaining of a persistent chest cold and the sad look on the radiologist's face (looking at the chest X-ray) that essentially said "This poor bastard's [censored]." He was. The whole bell curve thing.

Believe me, I am in no way stating that I don't believe smoking is bad for you. Or even that being around smokers is bad for you. I was just saying that there are SOOO many things to worry about, second hand smoke is generally a lame excuse for telling someone what they can and can not do. I mean, based on that, we should not drive cars, for several reasons, they crash into things when not driven properly, they expel WAAAAAAY more noxious smoke than my cigarette does, they produce carbon monoxide, they add to noise pollution, air pollution, and water pollution, they drain the natural resources of our earth, ad nauseum. But there are very few people complaining about driving cars. I mean, for heavens sake, saccharin is known to cause cancer, but am I going to stop using it because of that?

Basically, there is nothing in this world that is totally risk free, and if there was, it probably wouldn't be enjoyable anyway.

Basically what I'm saying is this: I know smoking is bad for me, but I choose to do it anyway. If you don't like my smoke, don't stand near me, but don't expect me to stop simply because you say to. For the record, I don't intend to stop drinking, driving (not at the same time, don't get nervous) , walking across the street, talking on my cell, skydiving, scuba diving, swimming, surfing, drinking artificially flavored drinks, eating my twinkies with no expiration dates, listening to my music loud, or consuming polyunsaturated fats for fear of dying from it. Life is too short as it is to live in that kind of fear. I'll just do as I damn well please and let God handle the incidentals.

For the record, the number of people I know that have died from alcohol related disease outnumbers the smokers 6-1. Liver disease can be a very bad thing indeed.

Believe me, I am in no way stating that I don't believe smoking is bad for you. Or even that being around smokers is bad for you.

It sounded like you might be questioning the latter (granted, there are different levels of "being around smokers" that would have a lot to do with how bad it is for you).

I was just saying that there are SOOO many things to worry about, second hand smoke is generally a lame excuse for telling someone what they can and can not do. I mean, based on that, we should not drive cars....

Now *I'm* going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a sentiment that I have heard a lot of smokers express, often relatively young smokers, *before* they start experiencing shortness of breath when pushing a gurney up a gentle incline, *before* they start having chronic colds and sinus infections , and *before* those chronic sinus problems mean that they can't breath through their nose at night so wake up 3-4 times a night from mouth breathing.

, for several reasons, they crash into things when not driven properly, they expel WAAAAAAY more noxious smoke than my cigarette does, they produce carbon monoxide, they add to noise pollution, air pollution, and water pollution, they drain the natural resources of our earth, ad nauseum. But there are very few people complaining about driving cars. I mean, for heavens sake, saccharin is known to cause cancer, but am I going to stop using it because of that?

IIRC, the juries on saccharin and aspartame are still out. I'm going to guess, though, that in 10 years if you are still using saccharin but you decide that it is bad for you, I think you'll be able to quit. Let's talk in 10 years about your tobacco addiction (or let's not!)

Basically, there is nothing in this world that is totally risk free, and if there was, it probably wouldn't be enjoyable anyway.

I agree. I don't think of myself as a killjoy prohibitionist type.

Basically what I'm saying is this: I know smoking is bad for me, but I choose to do it anyway.

This is indeed your choice.

If you don't like my smoke, don't stand near me,

Hey, I was sitting here first!!

but don't expect me to stop simply because you say to.

I don't think I'm saying that. In all honesty, I guess I'd have to say that I'd be OK with prohibiting you from seeing cigarette ads all over town and that it would be OK if the government increases cigarette taxes to pay for your future health care costs and to create an economic barrier to potential teenage smokers (and that you can't smoke in buildings where other folks are), but that's about it.

For the record, I don't intend to stop drinking, driving (not at the same time, don't get nervous) , walking across the street, talking on my cell, skydiving, scuba diving, swimming, surfing, drinking artificially flavored drinks, eating my twinkies with no expiration dates, listening to my music loud, or consuming polyunsaturated fats for fear of dying from it. Life is too short as it is to live in that kind of fear.

I don't want to read too much into the brief comment by jets (a smoker against smoking), but I'm guessing that those comments are coming from someone who has started to feel some of the negatives -- social, economic, health, whatever. You may be the exception, but otherwise I think the time is going to come (all of the qualifications about skydiving, drinking, etc aside) when you will really want to quit. That's just my guess.

I'll just do as I damn well please and let God handle the incidentals.

Hey, I worship the Big Blue Invisible Bunny, but I'm not sure I trust him with my health!

Watch those Twinkies!