At this point in my life, I am probably going back to school to get my bachelor's degree. I have an associates in computer systems management (mostly VB programming, light networking, Access). I am looking to go back to go for an electronics engineering program. Has anyone gone to schools like DeVry, ITT, and Chubb? Are these 'loser' schools?

The reason I would probably like to go to these types of schools is because the students would probably be more professional. I got my associates at a school like this (WBI) and most students were older than me. I liked this much better than the BS I witness when I visit my firends for the weekend at their 'real' schools.

ITT is looking like the winner right now, but EE courses are only available in certain areas (none of them close to me). This is not a big problem as most of what I do now at work can be done from home.

So..... any opinions?

Well, not to be biased or anything, but I would chose DeVry (I am enrolled there now for a BS in Computer Information Systems). Remember DeVry is officially a University and we are double accredited. Does ITT have that? I don't know.
Justin

ITT is not accredited. Period. I see how that can be an issue if I ever have to go back to school again. Thank you for bringing this up.

I'm not sure that really matters too much, but it is an important point.

I'll tell you one thing... A couple years ago, Chubb graduates were taking the same positions at my company that I got with my hard-earned Bachelors in CS. Same money, same benefits, in less than half the time, and with maybe 1% of the effort. Two of them are good friends of mine, and both told me that Chubb's computer programming curriculum was basically a joke, but it sure worked for getting them their jobs. A couple years later, they're more productive than some people I know who have Masters degrees, but I can't say that's because their education was so wonderful, I just think they work harder.

Granted, times are tougher nowadays, and while they still have their jobs at my company, if they and I were to get laid off, I like my chances a lot better, especially considering I'll have my Masters in a couple months (fingers crossed.)

Nowadays, I'm not sure where the economy is going, but certainly, you can't go wrong by improving your knowledge base and adding another piece of sheepskin to your collection.

you can't go wrong by improving your knowledge base and adding another piece of sheepskin to your collection.

Considering I work in the family business, this is exactly what I'm doing.

Unless we go out of business, I will not be looking for another employer. Going back to school is for my benefit and ultimately the business.

Thanks for the info.

If you've allready got an associates, you may want to consider online and/or accelerated.

I'm thinking about signing up for this program:

http://www.bellevue.edu/Programs/Degrees/isst.html

It's online and accelerated. I havn't looked at many others, since I live about 15 minutes fromt his school... I'm doing online because of my strange work hours. It's about $10k for the program, but the GI bill is picking up my tab.

Rob, I looked into going to ITT a few years ago. It is not accredited, the cost back then for the electronics program was $25,000 and they used high pressure sales tactics to try and get me to sign up before I left. They knew that if you went out the door and gave it some thought, you would not be back.

I also talked to employers about the degree you get from there and they all said they were not impressed with it. I don't know of the other schools you mentioned but I would stay away from ITT.

I work closely with Human Resources and school name is BIG!

If you just want knowledge then "Bob's College of Knowledge" may do. However if you are spending all that time and resources you might as well go to a college that looks good to employers, my opinion.

I know that in positions I've had in the past where I was part of hiring decision making, all of the people in the group would avoid DeVry, et al. graduates. And I don't even have a degree at all. So, yes, they're loser schools. Basically, they're technical schools.

While I understand the desire to get an education as quickly as possible, at the same time, that tends to indicate a desire to search out shortcuts, even when they don't really exist. To me, it's the same type of person who would sweep dirt under the rug.

To speak more directly about the education involved, DeVry will teach you how to program. A real university will teach you computer science. Neither will do the other. That is, DeVry will teach you which buttons to push with no understanding of what they do. A college will teach you what those buttons do, but won't tell you how they're labelled.

IMO, understanding the concepts is much more important than understanding the specifics. Once you understand the concepts, specifics are easy. If you only understand the specifcs, then any change, like needing to know a different programming language, to be specific, becomes painful. Of course, you might be able to infer the concepts from the specifics, but it's much more difficult than the other way around.

Note that my comments are based largely on computer science and not engineering, but I doubt that there would be a lot of difference in the quality.

OK. A lot of you are saying stay away from ITT. That's fine and I will seriously take it into consideration.

This is true to an extent. Many of the "lesser" colleges do teach the exact same curriculum as the "better" colleges but because you do not have the "Name Stamp" of the "better" college you are not credited with the knowledge.

For example: I graduated from a "lesser" college with an associate’s degree. I wished to continue my education in a "better" college to obtain a bachelors degree. After much argument with the Dean the “better” college credited many of my classes. However one calculus class was declined. After continuing to argue with the Dean she finally agreed to take ALL my credits if I got a "C" or better in the disputed calculus class. When I took the class not only did it have the same curriculum but they even used the same book. I aced the class to prove my point.

Bottom line is that even if they do teach the same curriculum you will not be looked upon as having the same degree and you may have issues if you wish to continue your education.

I don't know about ITT or DeVry's Electronic school, but I have met several other "programmers" from DeVry, and have never been impressed with their skill.

I applied for a programming job a while ago at some company, and it came down to me, who at the time had an Associates (2 year) degree in computer electronics with very little actual school training in programming, and a person with a Bachelor’s degree in CS from DeVry. He got the job, but I was referred to a sister company in the same building that was using the same language, and got that job. We ended up training together, and with my mostly self-taught knowledge I kicked his butt at every turn. He was clueless, had no idea about even the simplest thing. Since then I have got my Bachelors (at a real college), and I estimate that pretty much any of my fellow graduates could have kicked this guys butt as well.

One DeVry graduate ended up being a friend of mine at another job, and he told me that pretty much everyone passes there. So if you want to learn, you can, but unlike a real college learning is not a requirement to get a degree. If I was an employer I would never hire one unless I tested the hell out of him first.

FWIW, I have a degree from a four-year school in CIS, which I got because there wasn't a computer science degree available. Now CIS really is a different thing from programming (although it had a few programming courses which taught nothing in the realm of proper thinking), but honestly my skills didn't come from school.

On the other side of things I've worked with several college grads with computer science or engineering degrees who simply can't do the work. They got their degrees because they wanted to "do computers", but in the end they simply didn’t have the creative talent.

Not that this helps with the original question, but if I were looking for a new programmer I'd care less about which degree he or she had, and more about whether the person had the skills to come up with a solution without an example to follow.