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#157735 - 29/04/2003 07:10 Harmony vs Pronto
mschrag
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
OK... I posted a while ago about the Harmony and I just got a private message asking what the "extended road test" is with it. For those who have Attention Deficit, I am keeping the Pronto TSU3000 and selling the Harmony SST-768. Both have some kind of annoying issues -- so read on.

I got both at about the same time. Because I have owned two Pronto's in the past, I thought I'd start with the Harmony to see how I liked it.

The web based setup was really nice. Harmony did a good job designing that and they seem to have a very large IR codes database. The only thing that I couldn't find a match for, unfortunately, was my Hughes HDVR2 (DirecTiVo). However, it's easy to learn commands, so I corrected that. The one thing I had a problem with was that I based the commands off of another TiVo device and the channel change option didn't work properly. Harmony Support corrected the configuration on the website within 2 days and when I reconnected my remote, it downloaded the fixed XML config file. I finally got all my devices setup and my initial impression was that it was a pretty well designed remote and the concept behind it was well thought out. After using the remote for about 2 weeks, I plugged it into my USB port to find that it wouldn't be detected. After spending a couple days going back and forth with Harmony Support to try and diagnose the problem, it was determined that it was a problem w/ the USB connector on the remote and I sent it back for a warranty replacement. One cool thing here is that they send the new remote out almost immediately (you actually "buy" a new remote, but they don't charge you unless the old one doesn't show up after a certain amount of time). So about about a week, I got the new remote. During that time I reflected on things that started to get on my nerves with the Harmony and started work on the Pronto. The biggest annoyance is that, while the Harmony SST768 has quite a few buttons, I felt like it really needed about 4 or 5 more to really handle the TiVo properly. Not only that, but you have to mode switch between Navigation buttons (arrows) and Numeric buttons (to type channel numbers). Now, admittedly, you don't really use the numeric buttons that often on the TiVo, but when you do, it's kind of annoying to have to switch modes. And sometimes I managed to switch modes by accident (some buttons trigger a mode switch) and it's really annoying to try and get back. Additionally, if you couldn't map one of your commands to a button, you have to drill down through the tiny LCD view to find the command you want. The other complaint, which at first I was able to look past, but slowly kind of annoyed me (just from a design standpoint --practically speaking you overcome this fairly quickly) is that to optimize the use of the buttons, the meaning of the buttons changes depending on the mode. So the number buttons become arrows in navigation mode. From a design standpoint this is obviously a little confusing and feels a bit like a step back in remote design. Navigation buttons are prevalent (sp?) enough in most devices now that they really deserve top billing, IMO. To close out the Harmony chapter, I feel like it's a really great remote for everything but TiVo. Having to map Thumbs Up to "3" and Thumbs Down to "1" is just weird (same deal as before). They got really close on this one, but didn't quite make it there for my tastes. I will say that there are plenty of other people (check the forums on remotecentral.com) that disagree with me about PVR support and think it's the perfect remote ... Perhaps it's because I've owned Pronto's in the past and I'm spoiled by the degree of customization. So my SST768 is on eBay now -- I noticed there are quite a few on eBay, actually -- that doesn't bode well.

Alrighty then .. That brings me to the Pronto. I got the TSU1000 a couple years ago and fell in love with it. I know a lot of people complain about having to look at the screen all the time because you don't have many hard buttons, etc, but there's something about making a remote that looks exactly how you want it to and does exactly what you want it to that somehow outweighs that base complaint a lot of people have with the Pronto series. So if you set that aside for a moment (because I think you either like LCD remotes or you don't, so this is for the people who like them or are on the fence), we can continue I really had almost no complaints with the TSU1000 personally -- maybe the speed of screen changes got a little annoying, but as I mentioned above, you can redesign your screens to group common buttons together and pretty much get rid of all screen changes except during device switching. The nearly unlimited macro ability of the Pronto is really awesome too -- every button can be a macro and the macros can be huge. So that was my 1000 ... Happy as a clam... They announced a couple Pronto's in the meantime, but I stuck with the 1000. Eventually the TSU6000 entered. A full color Pronto. That sounded too cool for a gadget freak to pass up. So the TSU1000 went up on eBay and the TSU6000 was delivered by Santa Claus AKA FedEx. Almost immediately I started to become annoyed. The construction quality on the 6000 didn't seem up to snuff, the battery life was awful (the charging station mitigates this to a large extent, though), the device itself felt sluggish, and it just plain let me down in almost every respect. And for over $700, that remote should kick ass, hands down. I finally decided that either I had a bad egg or Philips made a bad model egg, but regardless, it wasn't worth $700 to give them another chance to me. So eBay got another visit from the TSU6000 not long after. I tried to funnel the proceeds into a Zaurus and write my own remote (which I actually did write), but with no IR transmitter (effectively, for a a remote control anyway) I had to do it over 802.11 that triggered a PC to send IR commands -- it just didn't work out (too much latency, but it was close). Anyway, finally we're to the present day. Philips announces the TSU3000 and I think "they ditched the color and went back to their roots ... thank god". So I fire up ProntoEditNG and start working on my devices. Overall I think PENG is better than the previous versions. Yes there are some bugs in it, and yes some aspects of the UI are confusing, but my general feeling after making the entire remote is that it got better. However, on the actual remote itself, I was almost immediately put off by the quality of the case design. There are a lot more hard buttons on the new Pronto -- that's a good thing -- but many of the buttons (particularly the ones at the bottom) don't feel right -- you have to push them really hard to get them to be recognized. And the hard buttons on the right side all feel like one huge button -- there's almost no tactile separation between them. Additionally, I guess it's a design thing, but the way they have the buttons translucent really makes it look kind of cheap -- like a bad iMac look. The software on the Pronto leaves some things to be desired ... The remote transmission speed REALLY needs to be sped up in the next firmware rev. Additionally there appears to be a memory leak that slows the remote over time and eventually causes it to reboot. That's GOT to go. I'm also contemplating opening up the case and seeing if I can adjust the bottom hard buttons to so I don't have to apply so much pretty (they feel like they depress and notch in, and then there's another force required to actually cause it to "click"). What the Pronto's got going for it is that I can totally design my system -- I was pretty quickly able to hook everything up with some pretty complex macros (albeit not as "smart" as Harmony's, but with a couple anchor keys, you can almost always get discrete-like code sequences out of a device). So my hope here is that Philips will put out a firmwire rev that will fix the memory leak and speed up the IR transmission (most noticable when trying to triple-fast-forward on TiVo -- if you click fast, it drops every other signal.... most annoying). However, it's been several weeks and no word from Philips ... they correct a couple things in March with a firmware upgrade, but that's about it. However, there is at least a PENG developer that reads remotecentral, and I assume probably other divisions of Pronto do also.... For now I have faith

So basically they both have issues, but from my perspective I see the potential for Pronto to fix their problems with a software upgrade whereas I felt like the Harmony had some fundamental hardware design issues (# buttons, etc). I'll give the SST-788, or whatever the call it, a try, I'm sure.

ms

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#157736 - 29/04/2003 10:51 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: mschrag]
ashmoore
addict

Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
The big question is.........
Does the "long button press" from the empeg remote work now?
I could never get it to work with my TSU2000
_________________________
========================== the chewtoy for the dog of Life

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#157737 - 29/04/2003 11:49 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: ashmoore]
mschrag
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
I've never tried the Pronto with the Empeg before ... I'll see if I can give it a shot tonight.

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#157738 - 29/04/2003 14:57 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: mschrag]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Thanks for the updated review.

I keep thinking well I almost never use thumbs up / down but that would make it all the more annoying when I do need them because I would have to try to remember what button they are mapped to.

They should just copy the tivo remote, stick the screen on it and ad a couple of buttons for changing modes.

I think I am going to be stuck with multiple remotes forever.
_________________________

Matt

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#157739 - 29/04/2003 17:06 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: msaeger]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
I think I am going to be stuck with multiple remotes forever.
Me too I have a Pronto, but I found out that I can't do without the hard buttons, plus the Tivo remote (IMO) is perfect. Unfortunately, it's not the most usable if you have a home theater setup, as you can't control the power of the TV and the receiver. I did get it to where I could control the TV power and the receiver volume/mute, though. So now I just keep the receiver remote around to switch inputs and control the power.
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Matt

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#157740 - 30/04/2003 05:23 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: Dignan]
djc
enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
...as you can't control the power of the TV and the receiver.

i solved that problem by plugging the tv into the switched power outlet on the back of the receiver. tivo turns on the receiver, and the tv comes on as well.

So now I just keep the receiver remote around to switch inputs and control the power.

yeah, i still can't switch inputs either. i guess i can get off the couch for that.

--dan.

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#157741 - 30/04/2003 05:31 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: mschrag]
Dylan
addict

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
I don't bother trying to get a universal remote to replace the TiVo peanut. I think that remote was the result of divine inspiration.

Thanks for the review on the Harmony. I'm considering buying one for my mother. I can't count the number of times she's called me telling me something like the DVD is playing but she's getting no picture and the sound is from the radio.

I prefer hard buttons myself and I'm very fond of the Home Theater Master MX-500.

-Dylan

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#157742 - 30/04/2003 07:21 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: Dylan]
mschrag
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
I think it would be a great remote for my own mom ... She was constantly confused by the home theater when she came over. There are also regular fastforward/rewind/play/stop/pause etc buttons at the top, so DVD would work really well.

ms

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#157743 - 30/04/2003 08:53 Re: Harmony vs Pronto [Re: djc]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
i solved that problem by plugging the tv into the switched power outlet on the back of the receiver. tivo turns on the receiver, and the tv comes on as well.
Is that safe to do? I don't know why, but I've always been wary of doing that. I've got a really old big-screen TV and I don't want to blow it.
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Matt

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