#164729 - 09/06/2003 06:46
Band Names
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I’m at my wits end on this one. I hate picking band names (as you end up being stuck with that identity for a long time), but I’m recording a CD and trying to get some word of mouth going around San Antonio. I can’t call venues and say, “I have a group, here’s our demo . . . no, we don’t have a name yet.” Talk about frustrating, all I want to do is play and write music!
So here’s the question. Anybody got a great band name out there that they’d be willing to let me use? Our style is kind of pop-folk (because the acoustic guitar and focal harmonies are the main focus of most songs), though sometimes we edge into rock. Most of the lyrics are personal stories or ideas and have a spiritual context, but I’m not looking specifically for a religiously themed band named. Just something that doesn’t sound cheesy. The motif I like most is the “storyteller”, as that’s kind of how I see the lyrics and style, but no names in that vein seem to jump out at me.
Anyway, we need not limit this thread to band names that fit my description (as heavy metal band names are always the most fun to come up with); this could be a fun thread even if I don’t get anything useful. I’m sure, however, that you guys could at least come up with something better than JOI (Jesus On the Inside!), which someone suggested. I think that one caused me physical pain!
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164730 - 09/06/2003 07:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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You're asking other people for band names?? That's half the fun! My friends and I came up with no less than 300 band names ourselves. I'll post the list here if I can find it.
We ended up with "The Slow Nerves" (from a Flaming Lips song).
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Matt
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#164731 - 09/06/2003 07:24
Re: Band Names
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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?? That's half the fun! Maybe for other people, which is why I'm asking! I've also come up with a thousand different names, but they don't really fit our style. Plus, it's getting exceedingly difficult to find ones that aren't taken.
I've recalled several conversations when something was said and some would say "you know, that'd be a great band name!", but I can't remember a single one now.
I'd like to see your list though, it might be a fun read.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164732 - 09/06/2003 07:30
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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If I ever started a band, I'd name it "Lumber Party".
We'd dress up like lumberjacks, and do Husquavarna solos.
If you do pick a band name, make sure it starts with "The". You can't get a band going nowadays without starting with "The." The Strokes, The Hives, The Vines, The The. See what I mean?
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#164733 - 09/06/2003 07:31
Re: Band Names
[Re: cushman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I knew a band in college called 'Lumber Trunk'.
-Zeke
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#164734 - 09/06/2003 07:46
Re: Band Names
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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If you do pick a band name, make sure it starts with "The". You can't get a band going nowadays without starting with "The." The Strokes, The Hives, The Vines, The The. See what I mean? This trend replaces the trend of several years ago, when you had to include some random integer in your band's name. (Blink 182, Matchbox 20, 7 Mary 3, Eve 6, etc.)
I'm usually pretty good at generating band names, but folk/pop (or pop/folk?) is a genre that doesn't lend itself to much creativity in that regard. Seems to me many acts that fall into that category are either solo artists or have not-so-creative names like "The [insert name of lead singer here] Band."
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#164735 - 09/06/2003 07:53
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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7 Mary 3 I think they're awful, but I always thought that was a great band name. It was Jon's unit number on CHiPs. Ponch was 7 Mary 4.
I'm a fan of obscure pop-culture references like that.
The rest of those band names I don't get.
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Bitt Faulk
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#164736 - 09/06/2003 07:56
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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You could always pull out the old thesaurus and come up with variations on storyteller. This works well especially when combined with a random adjective, preferably with some assonance about it, as below:
The Mistaken Minstral
The Battlin' Bards
The Wayward Wanderers
etc. As a fun side project, you can code up a quick Random Bandname Generator script, and see what it comes out with.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#164737 - 09/06/2003 07:58
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Or you could go the entire other way from "The" and end up with a phrase for your band name.
They Might Be Giants
And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead
Godspeed Ye Black Emperor
Rage Against The Machine
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#164738 - 09/06/2003 07:59
Re: Band Names
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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#164739 - 09/06/2003 08:02
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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"The [insert name of lead singer here] Band." Hmmm, not quite going for "The FerretBoy Band!" 
My inability to pick names is evident in my handle, which is simply my old fraternity nickname (or a shortened version of it). I had no idea when I logged in here I'd be sticking around much.
I'm not sure the Folk/ pop is the best way to describe our style either, but it's hard to say. I'm terrible with that sort of stuff. I suppose we'd fall into a similar category to "Jar's of Clay" (which I like as a band name), though we don't sound much like them. Still, lot's of harmony and acoustic guitar stuff.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164740 - 09/06/2003 08:04
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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While searching for something, I stumbled across the best deejay name ever:
DJ Salinger
Hah!
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Bitt Faulk
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#164741 - 09/06/2003 08:04
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I have always thought that "harmonic dissonance" would make a great band name. (Taken from the lyrics of As The World, by Echolyn.)
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#164742 - 09/06/2003 08:09
Re: Band Names
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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You could always pull out the old thesaurus and come up with variations on storyteller. Actually did this the other night but came up with little. Might not have used the right thesaurus, though, as "Minstral" didn't come up and I like it.
This works well especially when combined with a random adjective, preferably with some assonance about it Hadn’t thought about this at all, but you came up with three better ideas than I've had since I started thinking about it (see, I'm really not good at this). Now to think of some good adjectives . . .
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164743 - 09/06/2003 08:12
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Like these? Oh, I might waste away my Monday morning clicking on those . . . 
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164744 - 09/06/2003 08:13
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Oh, I might waste away my Monday morning clicking on those . . . You're welcome.
Let us know what you come up with.
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#164745 - 09/06/2003 08:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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member
Registered: 06/03/2001
Posts: 135
Loc: Aurora, CO
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This trend replaces the trend of several years ago, when you had to include some random integer in your band's name. (Blink 182, Matchbox 20, 7 Mary 3, Eve 6, etc.)
Or, with the (C)Rap Metal bands, you have to include 'mud'. (Mudvayne, Puddle Of Mud, Stereomud)
Also, the greatest band name ever has been taken
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Rhino
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#164746 - 09/06/2003 08:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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harmonic dissonance That is good; makes me wish I was in a rock band!
"harmonic resonance" would better fit our style though . . . (if the monitors are working properly, that is!)
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164747 - 09/06/2003 08:24
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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If you want to go with a musical theme, you could always use something like:
C Flat
Fortissimo!
The Chord Changes
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#164748 - 09/06/2003 08:34
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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You could always bend in the geek reference and call yourselves C# Shooters.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#164749 - 09/06/2003 08:47
Re: Band Names
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Nice touch! I like that... Great alternative name!
Drinking is also a good theme - Tankards and Troubadours.
Edited by pgrzelak (09/06/2003 08:47)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#164750 - 09/06/2003 09:30
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/03/2002
Posts: 211
Loc: State side
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My friends and I always had this fantasy of starting a band and calling ourselves either:
My dog ate my stroke-book
or
Bacne (Back Acne)
Don't think they would really fly for a spiritual based band.
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Tobin
Mark IIa - 60gb - Smoke
[blue]fitter, happier, more productive[/blue]
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#164751 - 09/06/2003 09:46
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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harmonic dissonance "harmonic resonance" would better fit our style though Heh, one of my musician friends used to say: "There's no such thing as wrong notes. Only naive dissonance."
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#164752 - 09/06/2003 09:48
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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A different musician friend of mine said that he had an idea for a band name. What he wanted to do was be the producer/promoter for an all-girl pop group, and he would name it "Venus Envy".
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#164753 - 09/06/2003 10:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
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For a time, there was a local all-girl band called "Dickless..."
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."
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#164754 - 09/06/2003 11:10
Re: Band Names
[Re: bootsy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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My favorite local band name recently was 'Bumping Uglies'.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#164755 - 09/06/2003 11:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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We have a ``Patty Hurst Shifter''.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#164756 - 09/06/2003 12:24
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Perpetual Motion
The Mechanical Pencils
Bulb
The Double Clickers
Fiberoptic
Dyslixec
Kcuf
Qwerty
Absolute Zero - name of first album: Negative Four Hundred Fifty-Nine Point Five Degrees Farenheit.
Snot Booger - best for a punk rock band. Snot Shot would also be feasible.
The Stickers
Automatic Fish Sandwich
hmmm.. That's all I got for now. too bad The Atomic Bitchwax II is already taken. That would have been my top choice.
EDIT: edited to add Snot Shot.
Edited by d33zY (09/06/2003 12:26)
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#164757 - 09/06/2003 12:37
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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My friends and I always wanted to start a band called "The Mu skateers." We even did up our first album cover and everything. Album was to be called "From the pasture." (That album title would make more sense if you saw the cover, and hung around us for a little while.  ) Of course, we never did anything other than that. I think I even still have the graphics from the album somewhere. Anyway, not that it has anything to do with you looking for a name, we all just thought it was a clever name. This was about 5 years ago. For some reason, it doesn't seem as kewl now. 
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#164759 - 09/06/2003 12:55
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I was going to suggest "Zero K" for the second album.
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#164760 - 09/06/2003 13:20
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Well, if anyone wants to read some band names, here you go.
These may seem dumb, but we were trying to spurt out as many names as we could think of. So I don't appologize for them
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Matt
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#164761 - 09/06/2003 13:48
Re: Band Names
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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That's a fun list! I only skimmed it, but I'm going to go back and read 'em all. I think "We Hate Creed" is my favorite though.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164762 - 09/06/2003 15:05
Re: Band Names
[Re: butter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Bacne (Back Acne) Is this a reference to You Don't Know Jack? The Spacne commercial was a funny one.
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#164763 - 09/06/2003 15:46
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
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Best band name in the main stream
"Carter the unstopable sex machine" famous for hitting Philp Scohfield
another favorite is
"The sultans of ping FC"
mates college band was called "skinless creature" which was different
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines
Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord
Aberdeen Scotland
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#164764 - 09/06/2003 16:32
Re: Band Names
[Re: thinfourth2]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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...Deep in the ocean at the bottom of the sea...
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#164765 - 09/06/2003 16:45
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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enthusiast
Registered: 30/09/1999
Posts: 252
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Do you have a sample of your music we could listen to? Might make determining the style easier.
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Sonic Blue 03 Cobra Vert Owner!!!
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#164766 - 09/06/2003 17:34
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Thanks! I am quite fond of many of them "We Hate Creed" is high on my list too
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Matt
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#164767 - 09/06/2003 17:58
Re: Band Names
[Re: 94cobra]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I was going to post the song but had a moments difficulty and got cold feet. I think the guy doing the sound engineering would freek if I put one of the not-yet-ready demos out on the web, so I just can't make myself do it. I assure you I'll put a sample up when he's ready, but by then I'm sure we'll be locked into, er I mean chosen a band name.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164768 - 09/06/2003 18:27
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Maybe the band name will simply "come to you" at some point. You know, like a flash of inspiration. All you have to do is keep your eyes/ears open and pay attention to your environment and wait for something that fits to come along.
Some friends of mine were in a pop/rock band together during the 80's, and were going through the same name search you're dealing with right now. One day, the lead guitarist/songwriter (Jeff) went out to see a movie with the second guitarist/keyboardist (Greg). The theater was part of one of those national "chains" of theaters, so before each film, the theater would run a short filmstrip which announced the chain name, advertise refreshments, asked you to throw away your own trash, and declared "no smoking". But the latter message was worded strangely. It said, "May we suggest that smoking is prohibited." Jeff said to Greg something like, "That's unusual syntax, don't you think?", and Greg realized that "Syntax" was the perfect name for the band. Jeff agreed, so Syntax it was.
So just watch and listen, maybe a phrase or a word will make itself known to you. You just have to watch for it.
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#164769 - 09/06/2003 20:18
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Hmmm, not quite going for "The FerretBoy Band!"
I don't know, I think there is actually some potential there...
The Ferret Project
Fuzzy Vermin
Stretched Rats
Canned Ferrets
Sleeping Ferrets Lie
etc.
-Mike
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#164770 - 09/06/2003 21:39
Re: Band Names
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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"We Hate Creed" is high on my list too Spot on!
Speaking of which, did you hear about this story? Great stuff. Power to the people!
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#164771 - 09/06/2003 22:06
Re: Band Names
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Every time I see one of these Creed posts, I keep wondering, "who the hell are Creed?" I guess I listen to my Creed-less Empeg player too much...
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#164772 - 09/06/2003 22:07
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 17/07/2001
Posts: 721
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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ohhh...
How about...
Monkeypox !!
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//matt
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#164773 - 09/06/2003 22:08
Re: Band Names
[Re: ithoughti]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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LOL. Very topical
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#164774 - 09/06/2003 22:17
Re: Band Names
[Re: genixia]
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old hand
Registered: 17/07/2001
Posts: 721
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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oohhh...or..
S.A.R.S
Somewhat About Religion Stuff
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//matt
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#164775 - 09/06/2003 22:21
Re: Band Names
[Re: canuckInOR]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#164776 - 10/06/2003 01:18
Re: Band Names
[Re: ]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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And I like the name Dyslixec!
Actually, I liked the first Creed album - but then they stayed the same...in a bad way, unlike ACDC who stayed the same in a good way
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#164777 - 10/06/2003 04:55
Re: Band Names
[Re: ithoughti]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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oohhh...or..
S.A.R.S Cute! Besides the obvious, acronyms are like the thing (FFH, PFR...) in Christian music right now (or should I say CCM as it's more commonly referenced?). One of our thoughts was to just pick three random letters and let everyone else decide what they stand for! This thread has actually gotton my mind on a few good tracks, though everything good one I've come up with sounds so benign compared to what some of you have listed, which is good for a spiritual folk/ pop group, but it's also kind of a letdown after reading some of your suggestions. Anyway, current thinking between my wife and I (she's one of the other singers in the group) is "Steady On" (which again is not nearly as cool as "Harmonic Dissonance" or some of the other suggestions), but we just sort of happened upon it talking about this thread. We're not sold on it yet (and there is a third member to consult), but it is the only name we've come up with that doesn't sound like a thrash band or isn't just too cheesy. Anyway, keep the ideas flowing if you have any other names, this has been rather fun thread to read.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164778 - 10/06/2003 04:57
Re: Band Names
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I don't know, I think there is actually some potential there... One of the band naming engines that Tony pointed me to came up with "Tower of Puppies". I guess it could be "Tower of Ferrets" . . .
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164779 - 10/06/2003 07:20
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
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We had a band in high school, we called ourselves "Fetal Pigs"
Some other names that just seem great to me are...
Jellied Eel
Frank and the muck bangers (this one is stuck in my head for some reason, I'm wondering if it is already a real band name?)
Fark!
Jebidiah and the magical prosthetic
Those are just a few off the top of my head that seem, well kind of cool.
Edited by lopan (10/06/2003 07:41)
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Brett
60Gb MK2a with Led's
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#164780 - 10/06/2003 11:52
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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If you are a christian band, why not take a passage from the Bible?
Isaiah 34:11 - The Plumb Line of Desolation, The Measuring Line of Chaos
http://bible.gospelcom.net/ lets you search by keyword.
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#164781 - 10/06/2003 12:18
Re: Band Names
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Search words "ferret"
Sorry, we found no verses matching your specifications. Try a different search type, or a different Bible version. Sorry, I tried
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Matt
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#164782 - 10/06/2003 12:31
Re: Band Names
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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http://bible.gospelcom.net/ lets you search by keyword Yeah, we did that too. Only those don't exactly scream folk/ pop. "Jars Of Clay" is a good one taken from the bible, but most either end up mega-thrash sounding or really sappy.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164783 - 10/06/2003 12:35
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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I don't know dude, The Plumb Line of Desolation sounds like an acoustic hippy tree-hugging whiner band to me .
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#164784 - 10/06/2003 12:54
Re: Band Names
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Search words "ferret"
Sorry, we found no verses matching your specifications. Try a different search type, or a different Bible version.
Sorry, I tried
We could be "The Ferrets: Hey, We Were On The Ark Too!"
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164785 - 10/06/2003 12:57
Re: Band Names
[Re: JeffS]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
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Well once you got a name may i suggest a label for you to realease on http://www.fathippyrecords.co.uk/
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P.Allison fixer of big engines
Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord
Aberdeen Scotland
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#164786 - 10/06/2003 13:00
Re: Band Names
[Re: ithoughti]
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addict
Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
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Monkeypox !! Bastard!
You took mine!
Just read about that in the Globe today.
Damn prairie dogs...
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...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.
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#164787 - 10/06/2003 20:20
Re: Band Names
[Re: fusto]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Wipe them out. All of them. [/emporer]
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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