I downloaded emplode in the hope I could have a play before getting a player, but no .... ;-(

A couple of questions:

1. Does the empeg have the ability to rip direct from CD, or is the sequence to rip onto the PC hard drive and then copy the files across?
2. Does emplode hook into CDDB to get the track listings, genre, year, etc?

J.

Unfortunately, Emplode is not a ripper. It's just the program you use for transfering files to the Empeg and managing your playlists. It assumes you've already got MP3s on your hard disk waiting to be uploaded.

If you don't already have a ripper program, try Audiocatalyst. Everyone says it's very easy to use, and has CDDB support, etc. (I personally don't use it yet but I have been considering switching to it.)

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I already have a licensed version of Jukebox. Seems like a good reason to start ripping those CDs!

Thanks Tony. Seems like just you and me on the BBS. I assume the Brits are all at the pub already (those of us that aren't in the US!)

Blimey mate, yet another national stereotype trotted out!

I'm off 'ome. Now where's me whippet and me flat cap?

In the pub? No, still quite a lot of work to do...

Hugo

I already have a licensed version of Jukebox. Seems like a good reason to start ripping those CDs!

It's actually a good thing to have your collection ready before the Empeg arrives on your doorstep. I spent a few months ripping my collection in anticipation of getting an Empeg. I was glad I did it.

Some tips:

- Make sure your tags are filled out on all your MP3s. If they're not, you have to enter the track data by hand in Emplode.
- Make sure they're regular ID3 tags. Emplode does not yet support the ID3v2 standard (as far as I know... Any word on this, Hugo?). This might be an option somewhere in your software.
- Make sure to fill out the "Year" field in the tags. I love being able to play all the songs from a given year on the Empeg.
- If you have any trouble getting accurate data for your tags (for example, if you are ripping a soundtrack album and you want to enter the original year and and album for a given song), look it up at www.allmusic.com. Their database is very comprehensive.
- Try to organize a directory structure on your PC's hard disk that mirrors (as close as possible) the playlists you intend to create in the Empeg. That way, your uploading process will be very simple when you get the Empeg.
- Make sure your USB and serial ports are working properly on the PC, and make sure you're running Win98 or Win2000. Nothing would be more disappointing than to get the Empeg and be unable to put your tunes into it because of Windows problems.


I assume the Brits are all at the pub already (those of us that aren't in the US!)

Actually, you'll notice that the Empeg folks will post to the BBS at very odd hours sometimes. I've seen Rob post to the BBS from home at 3am (UK time) before.

And we have pubs here in the US, too, I'll have you know. There's one right down the street from where I work called "Mad Dogs and Englishmen".

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to check the ID thing - I have no idea. I'm running Windows 2000 Advanced Server on both desktop PCs, and Win98 on the laptop. They're all networked, so hopefully not an issue to txfer. Did I see some mention ogf RJ45 support for the Mk2?

I'll have to check the ID thing - I have no idea.

If you have a binary editor program such as UltraEdit, you can check if your files have a regular ID3 tag by looking at the last 128 bytes of the MP3 file. There should be a 128-byte block at the end of the file starting with the ASCII characters "TAG", followed by several fixed-length fields containing the tag data in ASCII. This is the data that Emplode will use to extract the song information. If it's not there, then there's nothing for Emplode to read from the file and you'll be forced to enter the tags by hand when you add them to the Empeg.


They're all networked, so hopefully not an issue to txfer.

In theory, you should be able to upload songs into the Empeg even if they're not stored on the local PC hard disk. Although I seem to remember some folks reporting problems when trying to synch files from a shared network drive, I'm pretty sure the problems were not network-related. So, in theory, you could have one of your server drives storing the MP3s, and use a client workstation to do the Emplode uploading.

Another nice thing about the Empeg is that everything is stored on the unit itself. Emplode doesn't read any local PC data files. It downloads your playlists from the Empeg when you start it up. It's sort of like a dumb terminal program. What makes this cool is that you can manage your Empeg playlists from any PC just by installing Emplode. You don't need to worry about synching data files between your home and work PCs, for example.


Did I see some mention of RJ45 support for the Mk2?

They said that it would be an option. I'm not sure how they plan to implement it. I don't know if the Mk2 Emplode will upload over ethernet or not. They said that they intended it to be for developers only (i.e., you can telnet into the box over ethernet if you like). Hugo, what's the latest word on this? Did I miss a meeting?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

OK, I'm ripping! MusicMatch supports both V1 and V2 tags, so I've selected both. What fields will empeg read? I've added year to the list, will it read 'mood' and 'preference' and all the others?

Can't wait to get the empeg now!!

OK, I'm ripping! MusicMatch supports both V1 and V2 tags, so I've selected both. What fields will empeg read? I've added year to the list, will it read 'mood' and 'preference' and all the others?

Empeg makes use of the following fields in the V1 tag:

- Track Name
- Artist Name
- Album Name
- Year
- Genre

I believe it stores the "Comment" field and displays it in Emplode, but I've never seen it displayed or used on the Empeg itself.

There is a V1.1 standard where they sacrifice the last byte of the "comment" field to store the track number. This is not used by Emplode. Instead, order your tracks by hitting view/details in Emplode and sorting by the sequence number, then dragging your tracks around until they're in the desired order. (One day, when you actually get your Empeg, remind me to teach you a trick that lets you drop groups of tracks onto the Empeg so that they appear in the correct order.)

Note that in V1 tags, there is only a specific list of about 128 genres that it will accept- you can't roll your own genre. Also note that all the name fields are limited to 30 character. This is a pretty severe limitation because you outrun it very frequently. This is one reason why I refuse to depend upon the CDDB to fill out my tags-- when there's an overflow, I want to be sure that I abbreviate it my way rather than just truncating it.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the CDDB doesn't store the year, so it'll be up to you to enter the year when you're filling out your tags.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Maybe I won't bother with 'mood' then. I've only done 4 Depeche Mode albums so far and they're all 'morose' ;-)

I'm adding the year manually, so no probs there.

Rip ... rip ... ripping away ... I assume 128kbps is the right sample speed?

I had one minor problem with syncing from the network in W2000. The network cable became slightly loose, and it disconnected the drive. Emplode immediatly freeked out and had a sync error, as where most programs just start a timeout timer at that point and will retry to get the file. (A broken network cable and an x-jack PCMCIA card don't mix well).

Also, The ethernet port on the MkII will be standard if I remember some of the recent more semi-official notices about it.

My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/

Here's a question for the gallery ... given you're all happily MPEGing your audio ... how many others are MPEGing video? I've had a Philips TiVo for about a year and couldn't live without it now. (www.tivo.com) And no, I've nothing to do with them apart from being another gadget loving geek. ;-)

Rip ... rip ... ripping away ... I assume 128kbps is the right sample speed?

---

It really depends who you ask. Personally, I regret having ripped my music at 128kbps, and have lately been ripping the new one at 160kbps variable... (high-quality variable in some programs...) - I think there is a difference between these two - as the 128kbps sounds like it's coming out of a tin-can for me.. You might want to rip your lesser cd's at 128, and your better cd's at 160 variable...
-mark

...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

Hmmm ... my new car's a convertible .... I think 128 will be fine! ;-)

Mk2's will open a socket listener and synchronise over this connection - we've not yet quite sorted the IP address stuff, but I suspect it will be along the lines of: if there's a link light on power up, it will use DHCP to get an IP address, otherwise it won't configure eth0.

Hugo

I hope this doesn't mean you will only work in a dynamic address allocation scheme ? What about statically allocated network address schemes? What if there is no available IP lease on the DHCP managed subnet you connect to? There are a number of DHCP-related issues that many people will not want to have to deal with.

I don't use DHCP in my network due to the difficulty of operating within a suitable DNS scheme, so it would be infinitely preferable if I could use the conventional ipconfig method to attach IP parameters to the eth0 NIC from the command line.

This does imply that this would only be available to system images with a command shell available via serial, ie. Developer. The Consumer image would not provide any way of getting to ipconfig.

Could you consider the idea of setting the IP address/subnet mask/gateway via Emplode? This would make it infinitely more flexible (and useful).

Also note that all the name fields are limited to 30 character.

Just to make it crystal clear, this is an ID3V1 limitation, once the files are in emplode each can be up to 255 characters long.

--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)

I suspect we'll use a bit of flash to store IP parameters for those who want static addresses: our DHCP client on the empeg does uPnP (universal plug & play) like win98, so that you can just slam an ethernet card into your unit and not even open the network control panel - but still have it work.

Hugo

I don't use DHCP in my network due to the difficulty of operating within a suitable DNS scheme.

DHCP doesn't necessarily mean the IP addresses that are handed out are dynamic. We use DHCP with statically assigned IP addresses by MAC address here for laptops and prototype Mk2 players without problems. This is compatible with DNS.

--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)

Yup, that's right - but it does mean that the administrator of the DHCP server has to decide that IP leases are attached to MAC (policy issue). If addresses were assigned from a pool, then they are effectively randomly assigned within the pool limits if the policy does not attach MAC to IP. This second form is not compatible with older DNS servers that do not include a DHCP server. If you use the first policy (effectively what BOOTP has been doing for years), then you are effectively using static assignment scheme anyway, so why bother with DHCP? (spot the gross oversimplification coupled with bullspeak in an attempt to pull a suitable amount of wool...)

I know - I'm only pointing out the obvious; I was just scared from the way Hugo framed it that there would be no other method of assigning NIC attachment data other than DHCP. He has explained a little in an adjacent post.

Believe it or not, I am actually a closet fan of DHCP (you'd never guess though), but it's frequently badly administered and under used/used incorrectly, and somewhat awkward to integrate into a useful DNS-based address scheme. I learnt the hard way about DHCP working overnight to configure a network of around a 130 PCs, finishing just about half an hour before the bash started (shudder - never again)

Whether or not your car is noisy isn't really the question. The question is whether or not you're an audiophile. My car is very noisy, but I also listen to my stereo very loud, so I can still hear compression artifacts when they're there.

At 128kbps fixed bitrate, you will lose some high-frequency content, and cymbals will sound a bit "swishy". It's very subtle, but if you're an expert in audio stuff and you know what to listen for, you can hear it.

Remember that it's always a quality-for-file-size tradeoff. If your software gives you a variable bitrate option, you can try using that to cheat the tradeoff curve a little bit. I've only just bought AudioCatalyst, and I'm very impressed with its variable bitrate encoding at the higher quality settings. In fact, I'll probably re-rip some of my more beloved albums with this new encoder.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I have seen the Tivo boxes, and they look tempting. Especially since they're supposed to integrate with my DSS dish really well. Still, it's one of those things that I don't really need- I can work my VCR just fine and can't justify the expense at this time.

Oh, and a more on-topic note... Jens, since you're new to this board, I think something should be made clear to you. When you see posts by "Altman", "Rob", or "Mac", you're talking directly to the Empeg folks:

"Altman"- Hugo Fiennes (did I spell that right?), Founder and owner.
"Rob"- Rob Voisey, customer service.
"Mac"- Mike Crowe, programmer.

I wonder how much they communicate with each other in-person vs. posting on this bbs...

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

.... I think 128 will be fine!

You'll regret ripping at 128bps once you get your Empeg and try things out. I bet you'll hear the difference even while cruising in your convertible at 80MPH with the top down! I recommend to rip at Variable Speed medium-high quality(Audio Catalyst supports this). In practice it averages out at 130-140bps, but sounds much better. Well worth the extra 5% in file size.

Henno
# 00120 (6GB+18)

OK, I've found VBR - what setting should I use? It's currently set to 6%

Thanks for the heads up on the 'empeg' boys ... I'd already sussed them out!

J.

I wonder how much they communicate with each other in-person vs. posting on this bbs...

Can someone put the kettle on please - I could do with a cup of tea. :)

--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)

OK, I've found VBR - what setting should I use? It's currently set to 6%

I have no idea. I'm not familiar with the software you're using. AudioCatalyst has nice little descriptions to accompany each setting, and they sound accurate. Perhaps your software has a similar set of descriptions?

You might have more than one setting to determine the quality, too, so look for it... One level of quality will always be the bitrate: i.e., the more bits per second of data, the more high frequencies and better stereo separation they can play back in a given frame. But another level of quality might be: How hard do you want the CPU to work to get the optimum compression? Some encoders let you adjust this, so that the compression can be done either quickly or carefully, or somewhere in between. Fraunhofer's command-line encoder offers both, but AudioCatalyst doesn't offer that option, it just has a single quality slider (plus a high-frequency checkbox buried in the advanced options).

Again, keep in mind that it's always a quality-for-filesize tradeoff. When deciding how to encode your music, decide what kind of disk space you're willing to pay for to store those 400+ albums. You might discover that you'd need a pricey 50gb to store all your albums at the highest quality settings, and you'll have to compromise a bit. Listen carefully to the albums you've encoded so far and see how much space they take up.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Well, I've done some at 6% compression, and the files are about the same size, but I have no speaker in the office PC, so I'll just have to wait until I get home and see what they sound like. I was just taking advantage of the 2x400 machine I have here.

Thanks for the intro to the 'guys'. Nice to 'meet' you. And if you're looking for a 'demo car' for the UK, I have a 1990 TVR 400SE back in the old country that you're welcome to use (if it means me getting a freebee empeg!)

J.

There is a very good article that has been posted a couple of times to this board, which documents a blind listening test conducted with the popular compression formats.

The article made a pretty compelling argument that on most types of music, hardcore audiophiles can not reliably distinguish a 128K-bit MP3 file from the master recording.

After reading that article, I find it hard to believe that most people are going to hear the difference cruising in your convertible at 80MPH with the top down. I'm usually happy when I can make out the lyrics under such circustances. :)

You and Tony seem to be identifying a discernible difference that doesn't seem to be supported by the study. Why is this?

Corby
6-Gig Blue, #320, 128K VBR

You and Tony seem to be identifying a discernible difference that doesn't seem to be supported by the study. Why is this?

Good question. Hopefully I can provide a good answer...

I just got done commenting in a different thread that I can only hear a difference on certain songs. On most material, I can't distinguish a 128kbps MP3 from the original wave file. But there are a few songs where I can hear definite aliasing on very high frequency material. It's subtle, but it's there. The general effect is a certain harshness to cymbal crashes. In some passages with very complex material (multiple cymbal hits combined with vocal sibilance combined with high-frequency guitar notes, a surprisingly common occurence in Rush songs, go figure), I can hear the cymbals actually break down and begin to show obvious aliasing artifacts. It's sort of a swirl and chatter sound. If you're familiar with guitar effects, it's like having a very subtle flanger effect applied to the cymbals. The effect is similar to what you get when you listen to a casette tape that's wearing out, only more subtle.

Another very specific example I can cite is at the beginning of the song "All the way from Memphis" on Brian May's "Another World" album. The song has a section in the beginning where there is some recorded crowd cheering that fades into the song. The cheering was added into the recording as an effect (it's not a concert album), and they've already processed the cheering sound with some delay-based effects such as chorus and detune. Actually, it's the sound of whistling wind, combined with a car engine, combined with the cheering fading in as the song starts. It has a very specific sound that's nice and smooth on the original recording. But when I encode it at 128kbps-fixed with Fraunhofer, the resulting MP3 file very clearly demonstrates aliasing. The cheering, as it peaks in loudness, sounds staticy and harsh instead of smooth. There's also more "pink" to the white noise, making it sound more like a jet engine than a crowd cheer. The same thing can be heard at the end of the song, since the same cheer recording is used there. It's subtle, but audible if you know what to listen for.

The reason this happens is because of the nature of data compression. High frequency sounds and white noise translate into digital numbers that are almost completely random from a compression algorithm standpoint. Compression depends upon repeating patterns, and these sounds are the exact opposite of what the compression algorithms like. It's the same problem with video compression, except with video, high frequency is defined as high contrast. That's why you always see odd artifacts around sharp edges in compressed video. The audio artifacts are exactly the same, they're just interpreted through a different one of our senses (hearing instead of sight).

But like I said, in order to hear the artifacts, you have to know exactly what to listen for, and you have to know the song well, and you have to directly compare it to the original material.

Unfortunately, I happen to know my Rush material so well that those kinds of things stick out like a sore thumb when I do hear them. It's kind of ironic: You only notice it on your favorite songs, but you notice it precisely beacuse they're your favorite songs. So it makes it that much more annoying.

That's why I bought AudioCatalyst the other day. So I could do the extra high-quality VBR encoding on those particular albums to take care of it. The rest of my collection is fine at 128k, and I intend to leave it that way.



Tony Fabris
Empeg #144