Ok, not to stir things up too much. I did a search for Nomad but didn't see any direct comparisons. I'm in a position where the Karma 20gb is apprx same cost as a Nomad Zen Xtra 40gb unit. Main diff I see is the form factor of the devices as well as the ethernet port on the Karma. I have two Empegs and am partial to the Karma mainly for that reason. But, I'd stil llike to hear comparisons between the two. if there is a web page review of the two head-to-head, I'd love to see that too. I know this will be a bit Karma biased, but what are the reasons to buy a Karma instead of a nomad zen?

thanks

Well, it is bigger, and while they claim 14 hours on a battery charge, reports seem to indicate that is half that at best. Some user reviews I saw gave it is as more like 3 hours. A lot of people have criticized the software, for both stability and ease of use. It is a decent device though all in all it seems, and an excellent price.

My wife is very pleased with the battery life of the Karma; I think she used it without charging for the duration of our San Diego trip last month, not all day or anything, but on the plane for a while and several times over the course of the trip.

We only use Rio Music Manager Lite most of the time, so I have no idea how stable Rio Music Manager itself might be.

Just to make it clear, I was talking about the Zen.

Thread diversion: What's the difference between RMM Lite and RMM Heavy?

RMML is a java version made by mike author of jemplode. RMML doesn't manage the music on your pc and doesn't rip cd's, it's like emplode. You can use it to upload to and manage the music on the Karma.

Ok, thanks. So I could continue to used Audiograbber/iTunes then, and just use RMML to upload music to the Karma, like I do with emplode now?

Yes

Thanks.

All I need now is a Karma in the UK....

One thing you may want to note about RMML is that it does not understand the WMA format and can't get necessary track info. Don't know about ogg or flac, but it definitely understands and transfers MP3s.

OMG, it's Weird Earl!

Easy cowboy ... It can do WMA, just not DRM WMA. Ogg and Flac too. And Mp3. If you are using RMML from the Rio support site, you are correct that it didn't do WMA, but that was a bug. The one on my site (and the one that will be in firmware 1.2x) will do WMA.

I bought a 40 GB Zen Xtra, played with it for a couple days, then returned it. I now own a Karma and wouldn't think of going back.

The main reasons: The Zen was so darn wide that it just didn't feel comfortable holding it in my hand. The various buttons were placed in such odd places on both sides that you really had to use two hands to operate it.

Finally, and this was the real deal-breaker for me: the scroll wheel mechanism on the Zen is pretty bogus. Very hard to scroll things quickly, and pressing the scroller in was difficult to do correctly since you have to be pressing it in at just the right angle. It just wasn't fun to hold and use! Within about one minute on the Karma I felt like I'd been using the scroll wheel and Rio Stick my whole life.

Other reasons: The build quality on the Zen is just not nearly as solid and "finished" as the Karma. I personally preferred the look and feel of the Rio desktop software. I think the Karma sounded just as good as the much-talked-about sound on the Zen, and in my opinion the Karma actually sounds better.

That, plus, if you really do the math, and your CD collection is not wildly monstrous, then 20 GB of music will be more CDs than you'd ever care to feed through an encoder.

Here's a reason:

My Creative Jukebox Zen locked up last week.

Stuck at the Creative logo screen. Buttons do nothing, reset button does nothing, total lock. MP3 player rendered completely useless.

Rather than spend the time and money repairing a unit that required me to hit the reset button far too frequently, I ditched the Zen and bought a Karma. So glad I did.

The end.

If you haven't gotten the latest firmware for the Karma, I'd recommend it. Especially if you're playing .ogg files. Link to v. 1.25.

-Zeke

I'll throw in one completely illogical money-management reason:

Because of loyality to a brand..

Granted, it's now a (third?) company, but the most of same guys that worked on Empeg are working on the Karma. Empeg's been EOL'd for 2 years now? (3?? I can't remember..) And despite the fact it's EOL, we just got a 'preview' to 3.00, which included OGG support.

You won't and don't get that from 99% of the companies out there today. (Now, granted, they're not doing it on company time, but the end result is the same.)

TO me, that means a hell of a lot. (maybe because of the way I was brought up, I dunno.) So, I'm willing to give the Karma a try. If it don't work out, THEN I'll look at other options..

(Also, granted, the whole 40Gb thing was a tease. To me, a consumer that IS basing it offa 'brand loyality', that wasn't a good move.. Still waiting for a 40, but may crack after the holidays..)

Me.

OMG, it's Weird Earl!

Hate to correct, but since he's my doppleganger, it would actually be "Bug-Eyed" Earl...

Ah, right you are.

Because of loyality to a brand..
And despite the fact it's EOL, we just got a 'preview' to 3.00, which included OGG support.

Yes, the v3 alpha really drove a point home... but it's *more* than that. I have to say that until I managed to travel to Amersfoort and meet "The Guys", there were some things I just didn't understand....the thought of sex with other men somehow had never entered my mind. And then Amersfoort and the v3 alpha came along and, well, to say that my life has changed would be a bit of an understatement.

Anyhow, last week I bought a Karma from Amazon/J&R. ... I mean, what choice did I have? It arrived yesterday. Haven't taken it out of the plastic bubble yet. I've propped it up on my mantle next to my signed photo of David Hasselhoff and I'm just now heading off to the store to buy some candles.

LMAO

! You're luckier than I.. I haven't even MET "The Saviours" yet in person. I'm stuck over here on the other side of the pond.

Me.