Why is it when my Karma sits in the cradle overnight I pull it off and it's 100% charged but when it sits there for 3-5 days on but not doing anything I pull it off and it's 80% charged? This hasn't caused any grief, I'm just curious if it's by design or not.

Also, I recently saw an article about an anti-iPod campaign because it has a non-replacable battery with an 18 month life span. Is there any idea what the life span of the Karma battery is or if it's user-replacable?

The Karma's battery is supposed to have a life span of many years. I believe this is being discussed in other threads related to that ipod-battery site.

Related question : can you ALWAYS keep the kama on the cradle, even if the battery is full and you won't be using it for a few days/weeks ? Or is that potentially harmful for the battery ? (I would think not, but I'm not sure so I figure I'd ask)

That's my default mode of storing the Karma (in its plugged-in cradle) and I haven't had any trouble with it yet.

There's only one issue with doing it that way. If you have the USB cable plugged into your PC, the Karma will boot up when you turn on the power to the PC. This is because the karma has to actually be on, with program code actively running, in order to respond to the PC's request for USB devices to identify themselves.

So if you want the Karma to stay turned off, unplug the USB cable when leaving it in the cradle.

So if you want the Karma to stay turned off, unplug the USB cable when leaving it in the cradle.

Or leave the PC turned on....

Thanks Tony !

Yes, I've noticed that about the USB cable, and yes, I've unplugged it too for that specific reason.
I was just wondering if it wasn't possible to "overcharge" the battery, but I guess this type of battery prohibits this.

I was just wondering if it wasn't possible to "overcharge" the battery, but I guess this type of battery prohibits this.

I think it's more a case of the charging circuitry Doing The Right Thing as opposed to the battery itself, but yeah.

I don't have a Karma (although it seems very nice!), but Lithium Ion batteries are universal in the way to deal with them.

Most batteries lose charge over time, so this is what you are seeing.

The life span is very likely to be the same as the iPod, probably around 500 charge cycles. It's a shame Rio didn't make the battery user replaceable after all the problems Apple have had.

Lots of good information on Lithium Ion here: http://tinyurl.com/djkn

It's a shame Rio didn't make the battery user replaceable after all the problems Apple have had.

The Karma couldn't have been made that small with a user replaceable battery.

I disagree, a battery compartment would have only added millimetres to the overall size.

Not so - with a factory installed battery, it can rest tight inside the unit. With a user replacable one there would have to be a lot of space made for it to sit outwith the electronics - easily a cm or 2. Its not just a case of putting a removable back on the unit.

Besides - we're not allowed to question Roger's comments

An over simplification. Usually batteries are quite large and easy to sit alongside one edge of a player. All that is needed is a thin divider, a contact, and obviously a removable portion of the case (albeit a simplification on my part). It should be relatively easy to design this in on most players without compomising the design or the case size by a very few millimetres. Without seeing the "guts" of the Karma it is difficult to say, but having seen some other players this has been the case. Eitherway, you have your view and I have mine, and I suspect neither view will change :-)

All-in-all though this is a somewhat moot point without knowing the cost of replacing the battery by Rio, the likely availability of the battery for years to come, and whether the battery can be sourced elsewhere and replaced by a savvy user.

Have you read the other posts about the battery? The empeg team say that the battery will last a lot lot longer than the iPods. By the time it needs replaced, they'll be a new technology available

I've not searched the forum yet (sorry for being lazy!).

I guess Roger is one of the designers ;-) I missed your point about "not questioning".

I'm intruiged though as to why this battery should last longer than the iPod. My understanding is that you pretty much get a standard (albeit custom size designed) battery. But I'll take a look at older posts for a reason as to why this is.

btw, was the Karma designed by the Empeg team? I never bought an Empeg (although I was very close) but I'm noticing the Ethernet socket for one. A great idea!

The guys in blue (pca, Roger, peter, Rob, David, hugo) created and developed the empeg. Some of them were responsible for the Karma - software at least.

Not sure of the reason behind the better battery lifespan. I'm sure the answer is out there, but I'm lazy too

Tony Fabris (tfabris) usually answers everything you want to know!

...and whether the battery can be sourced elsewhere and replaced by a savvy user.

From what I undertand, it is certainly possible to do.

Without seeing the "guts" of the Karma it is difficult to say

I have seen the guts of a Karma. I'm not saying that it would have been impossible to make the battery user-replaceable, but it would have added significantly to the size, percentage-wise. Also, presumably, the cost.

IIRC, there is no "battery connector" in the Karma -- it's soldered to the board.

To make a battery flap, you'd need a few millimetres if you wanted to make it robust enough.

And then you've got to allow that the batteries aren't simple stock parts. I don't think that they were specifically moulded, but they could have been. There's not just a AA cell in there . Admittedly, you probably could source them from Farnell...

In the future, batteries will start to be moulded as part of the case -- then they really will be difficult for the user to replace.

And, as others have said, the battery management in the Karma is better than that in the iPod (at least the earlier ones anyway), so the battery ought to last a lot longer before it needs replacing, anyway.

To make a battery flap, you'd need a few millimetres if you wanted to make it robust enough.

And honestly, since the battery is going to last for many years, there's no point in going to all that trouble. It's easier just to dismantle the Karma and solder in a new battery. It's not that tough to take apart and put back together as long as you know what you're doing.

The tough part is sourcing the replacement battery.

Thanks for the info. Roger.

Can you comment on what hard disk is used in the Karma? i.e. make and model, or at least basic type and height (e.g. 2.5", 9.5mm). I've asked this question before, but no-one seems to know.

I don't see any mention of anyone having tried to upgrade, but I'm curious what's in there (I hope it's nothing too secret!).

I'm on the verge of buying the player, just need to find a shop with a good price that will ship to Brazil.

The hard drive is this one, 20 GB version. Thats based off looking at the photos on Riovolution.com

Recovery mode on the Karma prints out the exact model of the HD so you don't even need to guess by looking at pics.

I don't have a Karma ;-)

So is this the right model?

I'm considering testing upgrading, as I have a spare 40Gb drive which is the right height at least (based on the previous post).

I can find nothing about success or failure with this in other posts.

I'm considering testing upgrading, as I have a spare 40Gb drive which is the right height at least (based on the previous post).

From Hitachi? Their 40Gb 1.8in drive is taller and won't fit.

Peter

From memory it's a Fujitsu or Toshiba drive, with a 9.5mm height (currently residing in my Nomad Jukebox 3 ;-))

Upgrading the NJB3 was pretty easy, as long as you are licensed to wield a screwdriver. I've not seen a Karma opened, but might take the risk (as chances are I will have no warranty where I am buying it from anyway).

From memory it's a Fujitsu or Toshiba drive, with a 9.5mm height (currently residing in my Nomad Jukebox 3 ;-))

9.5mm is too tall, it must be 7mm. And don't NJB3s have 2.5in drives? Karma's is 1.8in.

Peter

Ah, well this is what I was trying to check ;-)

This puts the kibosh on that idea then, as you're correct in your assumption about the 2.5" drives.

Well I guess I'll still get the 20Gb (eBay.com is looking like the current favourite to buy from, seeing as I need to get it to Brazil). The thing I love about the Karma is the UI, this is what sells it for me. Nobody has done much lateral thinking with digital audio content, and the things that can be done to add more value to how it can be controlled. It seems the Karma is one of the first to do this (excluding what I have seen of the Empeg).

Recovery mode on the Karma prints out the exact model of the HD so you don't even need to guess by looking at pics.

True. But my Karma is at home, while I sit here at work, and noone else had offered the model up yet.

Ahh okay. In that case for future reference, my Karma prints out Hitachi DK14FA-20 when you put it into recovery mode