So I'm going to be taking through Calculus 3 while I'm here at college and it's time to buy one. I had a TI-83 in high school that I loved dearly but has been passed on to my sister. I was thinking of getting a TI-89 Titanium but it won't be out untill the summer. I figured I would ask here first to see if you guys had anything better to recomend. Looking for a price point of ~$175 but cheeper is always better.

I've had an 89 since they came out and it's been well worth it. Using it on the SAT's alone was worth the purchase price. Ironically enough, as a math major I don't have much use for it any more, but it still comes in handy. I'm not sure if the features of the titanium one make it worth waiting for, but if you think you might need them then wait.

There is of course the HP/RPN cult, which you can consider joining, and I'm sure someone here can tell you why you should.

Matthew

I am a member of the HP/RPN cult and it is a struggle. The quality of HP calculators really fell off after the 48GX. The 49 was a big disappointment with virtually no tactile feedback from the keyboard.

I'd stick with TIs since that is what everyone you know will be using and group work is much easier. The 89 is fine for Calculus 3.

It's a shame the HP calculators never caught on in schools. My high school actually had a full set of HP48SX calculators that I got my entire class to use in 9th grade. We even had a projector you could plug into the calculator to display things to the rest of the class. This helped a bit, as several students then bought a HP48G series.

Everything seems centered around TI though (and I can't stand to use them). I got way to used to having RPN and easy stack manipulation at an early age, and it has stuck as an expectation. I have problems with calculators built into Windows/Mac OS for anything more then some quick math.

My sister now has my HP48GX for her high school math classes, and seems to be doing well with it. I'll probably buy her something comparable, so I can get my 48GX back.

No question about it: get an HP 48SX or GX. You can pick them up in like new condition on ebay for $120-130. You won't regret it. PM me if you have questions about it. At ebay, leave a space between the 48 and hp when searching.

Jim

It's a shame the HP calculators never caught on in schools.

Unfortunately, all calculators were banned in many math classes (especially calculus) at university.

Unfortunately, all calculators were banned in many math classes (especially calculus) at university.

The sad thing about this is it takes away from learning then. We all know how to do 532+612 by that time, so a calculator simply gets you past those easy parts. My calculus teacher required us to show all our work on the new parts of the lesson, then would get to a point where she would say that we could do an earlier lesson now on our calculators in the interest of time, to get us to the new parts. This way, we actually got a decent way through the book and learned what we needed.

I don't think so. I realize this is almost a religious conversation, but I think banning calculators in math classes is an "OK" thing. My reasoning is that by the time a student is studying calculus, they should be *really* making the transition away from thinking of math as "about numbers". Calculus is primarily a conceptual and symbolic representation, and not really "about numbers". You could make the same argument for algebra. I don't remember ever having to do 532+612 for calculus or algebra. Usually the arithmetic is minimal in those classes.

Newer calculators are capable of symbolic algebra and even calculus. I think it is important to learn how to manually manipulate the symbols so you learn the underlying concepts. I see math, certainly math beyond algebra, as a kind of language, and I don't think you can learn that language without working problems by hand.

A physics teacher I had also banned calculators. When people complained, he always said, "the exam problems all use integrers, they all come out to simple fractions. You don't need a calculator. If you used a calculator I'd make the numbers more difficult, but it wouldn't change a thing -- you'd still need to know the physics."

I think he's right. Later, when we were solving "real problems" and using, for instance, real numbers off of steam tables in thermodynamics or something, we used calculators, but we knew the principles first.

That said, I think a good calculator is critical for technical work. I just don't think they help much for learning the concepts. When you move from mathematics to engineering, you need to good calculator. Here is another story about having a great calculator (when I first got the HP48).

I'll also admit to being an HP calculator biggot. They are (were!) the quality of a precision instrument. They are intended for professional, some might say industrial, use. Prior to the HP49, they were over-engineered, beautiful machines. They had their own way of working (RPN, etc), and it was weird at first, but then you "got it" and NEVER wanted to use a "normal" calculator again. In my opinion, you owe yourself that experience. The machine is designed to be the best at its function, not to be like every other calculator and be used by someone without learning.

As an aside (and a bit of a rant), I think this notion of computers being usable without the user educating themselves is the bane of the modern computer world. It results in the tools being designed for the lowest common denominator.

The HP machines are NOT designed for the lowest common denominator. You have to learn to use them. They are designed to help technical professionals do their job.

One last rave about them. I don't know when this changed, after the 15c certainly and I think they did it through the 48, but HP had a unique way of designing the buttons on their calculators. The numbers and symbols are not painted on the buttons like everyone else does. The buttons are molded from multiple colors of plastic in a complex die that creates the pattern on the button. That means that the text on the button is molded in to the button and can't wear off! Amazing. They also have the best "button feel" that any calculator has ever had.

FWIW,

Jim

I own both a 48 and a 49 , I never used the 49 much though. I also never understood all the criticism of the 49.

I also never understood all the criticism of the 49.

I don't like the keys because there is very little tactile feedback for when you have pressed a key. I have the 49 and 48 and I never use the 49. I cannot tolerate a machine
that doesn't register every key press. I do a lot of involved equation solving and you can easily be off an order of magnitude if it misses a key. Supposedly, the keyboard problem is fixed in the new 49g+.

I hope HP continues to make calculators since I haven't used anything else (except my kids' TIs).

I have an HP 48 and a TI-92 but much prefer the HP ...

yeah the 49g+ looks interesting, too bad I am done with college. I guess the tactile feedback never really bothered me one way or the other. The buttons do feel much cheaper on the 49 though, and it just looks too fun.

Well several years ago I was using the 48GX and I loved it. At that time the big TI calc was the 85 (actually the 92, but it was new and our school didn't allow them) which was OK but I preferred the HP over the TI then.

Well at my college the only calc that is allowed (and required) is the TI-89. And to be honest this calculator is pretty nice. Granted I do miss the RPN notation and stack on the 48 but the 89 does everything the 48 did (maybe +/- 1 or 2 things one does over the other).

If you do go with the TI-89, I would definitely get the Platinum just because of that extra memory.