Howdy,

I was just wondering if there were any empeg owners who have installed it in a Jeep Wrangler. More specifically, a TJ wrangler (97+)

I am just wondering as I would like to knock heads with you to see where you powered/grounded it from, since I am still having feedback issues.

It's not engine noise, since I get the noises when I just have accessory power on (no engine on). It's mainly an amplification of empeg "internal" sounds, like I can hear when the hard drive hits (grinding noise through speakers) and other sounds (high pitched whining at times).

Anyway, calling all Jeep owners! :)

Thanks,

(O|||||O)

Obviously, you've been with us on this BBS a long time and therefore have heard (and most likely participated in) all of our discussions about ground loops, which is what you sound like you've got. So there's no sense in hashing over that stuff again.

But something that I remember from another discussion that might apply in your case: Someone here reported that a loose wire on his connector (in his case, internal to the empeg) caused noise problems. Can you verify if this is the problem or not?

___________
Tony Fabris

When I first installed the empeg in my Isuzu Rodeo I got tons of feedback from the empeg and the brake light in the car. It turns out that the amp I bought was extremely cheap (I guess it doesn't pay to buy a $1300 head unit and a $50 amp). The second I had my $300 Kicker amp put in, everything sounded great. Just telling you my experience with unwanted interference.

-Rob
-----
12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)

Obviously, you've been with us on this BBS a long time and therefore have heard (and most likely participated in) all of our discussions about ground loops, which is what you sound like you've got. So there's no sense in hashing over that stuff again.

Yes, actually I've been a member of the forum longer than most. ;)

And I wasn't trying to open up another ground loop discussion. I specifically asked for 97+ TJ Owners with empegs to respond so I could start a dialogue with them regarding their install. I'm not interested in someone diagnosing my supposed ground loop problem, as I've been through it all.

But something that I remember from another discussion that might apply in your case: Someone here reported that a loose wire on his connector (in his case, internal to the empeg) caused noise problems. Can you verify if this is the problem or not?

I would assume this would not be a problem as I had sent the empeg back at one point and it failed no diagnostics then. Audio problems before and after I got it back.

So anyway, as you said, this isn't a ground loop discussion. I just wanted to find a fellow TJ/empeg owner and see exactly where they have it grounded, and so on.

(O|||||O)

Have you tried the registry yet? It's not very large (we've all heard crazy reasons why people don't register *eyes rolling*), but there may be someone.

I am assuming you did the install yourself. If you didn't, where did you? And regardless, this may be the point when you want to take it to someone. I would suggest the place that installed mine, since I know you live in the area. It's called Sound Solutions in Chantilly, and I believe they did squid's install as well, although he hasn't posted his results (where are ya?).

Plus, they probably won't charge you to check it out. I talked to the guy who eventually did my install on the phone, drove my van over there, and he spent about 20 minutes looking it over and offering suggestions. Very helpful people.

Good Luck.

ps-all us metro area empegers have to get together sometime. Someplace with a big parking lot

DiGNAN

pps- how is the work on that MP3 identifying software coming along? I'm still waiting for the time when I can fill out ID3v2 tags on all my MP3's with just mouse clicks

DiGNAN

Hello,

I think I replied to one of your other posts a while back. I have a 2000 TJ and have not had any feedback problems. I used to have a little feedback with my Pioneer head unit, but since installing my MK2 (using factory power and ground wiring) I have not had any problems (I did upgrade my amps at the same time). Drop me an email privately (mcomb@mac.com) or respond here if I can provide any info. I will give you a little info on my setup.

Empeg MK2 using factory wiring with empeg ISO adapter wired to Crutchfield Chrysler adapter wired to factory stereo plug. Two MTX amps (one 4 channel for speakers, one 2 channel for subs) with 8 guage power wire to battery and 8 guage ground wire to rear seat mounting bolt. Polk 4.5 and 5.5 inch speakers in dash and roll bar. JLAudio 8 inch subs under rear seat. 16 guage speaker wire to speakers and subs. I ran power for the amps down the left side of the jeep and audio cabling down the right side. Speaker wiring for the roll bar speakers runs up the rear roll bars under the padding. Amps are both mounted in the add-a-trunk. I wired everything myself.

Let me know how yours is setup and maybe we can compare differences.

-Mike

Ohh, I forgot the obligatory jeep specs ;-)

2000 Black TJ Sport
30' Tire Package
Borla Cat-Back System
Black Nerfs and bumpers
Kick-ass stereo :-)

Needs lift and 33' tires.

-Mike

I think Tony meant loose connections in the black sled connector, not internal to the empeg.

Have you got a Mk1 or a Mk2?



One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I think Tony meant loose connections in the black sled connector, not internal to the empeg.

Ahh, yeah. Okay I know what you mean, probably loose on the connector in the sled or on the ISO connector. I didn't notice any problems as I looked at the ISO connector at one point, but I'll check again.

(O|||||O)

I had an MK1, sold it (also had the noise problem, just not as bad as the MK2), and I currently have a MK2.

I am assuming you did the install yourself. If you didn't, where did you? And regardless, this may be the point when you want to take it to someone. I would suggest the place that installed mine, since I know you live in the area. It's called Sound Solutions in Chantilly, and I believe they did squid's install as well, although he hasn't posted his results (where are ya?).

Cool! I didn't realize there were people that close. I live about 15 minutes north of Chantilly so that wouldn't be a problem. As much as I would love to do it myself like I have the rest of my installs, I might just concede the fact that a professional could do it much better than myself.

So you say the Sound Solutions guy have done an empeg properly before? Cool. I'm going to give them a call today to see if they would look at my install without charging me, and perhaps get a quote on rewiring it "correctly".

Besides, right now I've just got a 10" JL audio in the "trunk" of my Jeep. I want to try to get a custom box built for two 10" subs.

Anyway, thanks for the info! I think all us empegers should definitely get together and show off our systems/rides. :)

(O|||||O)

Empeg MK2 using factory wiring with empeg ISO adapter wired to Crutchfield Chrysler adapter wired to factory stereo plug.

Okay, first off, if it sounds like you pulled your own wire from all your speakers, and also provided your own power and ground, what leads are you using from the factory wiring harnass? :) Or are you using the power and ground leads through the harnass to power and ground the empeg?

Two MTX amps (one 4 channel for speakers, one 2 channel for subs) with 8 guage power wire to battery and 8 guage ground wire to rear seat mounting bolt. Polk 4.5 and 5.5 inch speakers in dash and roll bar. JLAudio 8 inch subs under rear seat. 16 guage speaker wire to speakers and subs. I ran power for the amps down the left side of the jeep and audio cabling down the right side. Speaker wiring for the roll bar speakers runs up the rear roll bars under the padding. Amps are both mounted in the add-a-trunk. I wired everything myself.

Okay, so you pulled out the cheezy factory Jeep roll-bar speaker wiring and installed your own and pulled it into your trunk? I assume your amps are grounded to the same position. Is your empeg also grounded to this position or is it, like I said, grounded to the factory ground in the wiring harnass?

Hmm. I think that's all my questions actually right now. Here is my current setup:

MK2 using factory wiring to the wiring harnass. I have a in-line power noise filter (from radio shack) installed which eliminated a little alternator whine I was getting. I have one tiny 40W amp powering the front and roll bar speakers which is under the drivers seat. I have a 400W amp powering the 10" sub in my trunk (the amp is under the rear seat). Both amps are grounded to a bolt under the center console, direct to the chassis. I don't recall what gauge wire I used, but I will check.

Anyway, I'm thinking about conceding that I just need someone professional to install it, because frankly I'm sick of messing with it. But that fact that you have a 2000 TJ with no noise and you did the wiring yourself is promising. I at least know it is possible. So if you can answer those questions above, I'd appreciate it. :)

(O|||||O)

2000 Black TJ Sport
30' Tire Package
Borla Cat-Back System
Black Nerfs and bumpers
Kick-ass stereo :-)

Needs lift and 33' tires.

33' tires?? That would be pretty impressive to see. ;)

1998 Black TJ Sahara
Hard/Soft Top
Custom designed roof rack for my whitewater kayaks (works with soft top too!) ;)
Kick-ass stereo :)
4" trailmaster suspension lift
3" body lift
33"x12.5" Dunlop mud radials (Will eventually be 35"x12.5" when I get enough money to do axle/gearbox work)

Yeeeee---hawwwww!

ClemsonJeep's Jeep Pic 1
ClemsonJeep's Jeep Pic 1

It's cold so I had to put the hard top on... it looks pretty awesome with the top and doors off though. ;)

(O|||||O)

I called them, they sound pretty good. Said they'd take a look at it and see if they can see whats wrong with it.. Also said they could build a custom speaker box to hold 2 10" subs in my trunk space, downward firing so that it wouldn't lose much quality with the top off for about 300 bucks.

Anyway thanks for the link. I've been looking for some good people in this area to do the work.

Late,

(O|||||O)

Oh yeah, they're good at that stuff. Check out my posts in the install forum. There's a pic there of the custom sub box they built to replace the tray between the 2 front seats of my van. Very well built, I think you'll be happy with their work.

By the way. You like whitewater kayaking? I assume you've heard of Great Falls? I live in McLean, about 10-15 minutes from Great Falls Park (I don't kayak, but I've seen other nuts doing it there). We should have a little get together (perhaps with squid2k1 and anyone else in the area) and do some empeging.

DiGNAN

Actually, I meant both: Internal as well as external. Whether the loose wire is on the outside of the connector or the inside, it's still a loose wire and (depending on which wire it is) might cause an audible ground loop. I only mention it because somebody else here on the BBS had noise problems that were eventually traced to a loose internal wire on the connector.

___________
Tony Fabris

I have one tiny 40W amp powering the front and roll bar speakers which is under the drivers seat. I have a 400W amp powering the 10" sub in my trunk (the amp is under the rear seat). Both amps are grounded to a bolt under the center console, direct to the chassis. I don't recall what gauge wire I used, but I will check.

In my installation, I have a tiny cheap amp powering the front speakers, and larger expensive amps powering everything else. Although I've reduced my noise problems to my satisfaction (by reducing the amp gains), I'm pretty sure the existing noise problems are all due to ground loops between that cheap little amp and everything else. If I remove that amp from the mixture, all the noise goes away completely.

The next upgrade I make to my system will be to replace the front speakers and the front amp.

___________
Tony Fabris

In my installation, I have a tiny cheap amp powering the front speakers, and larger expensive amps powering everything else. Although I've reduced my noise problems to my satisfaction (by reducing the amp gains), I'm pretty sure the existing noise problems are all due to ground loops between that cheap little amp and everything else. If I remove that amp from the mixture, all the noise goes away completely.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like my installation. The front amp that drives the front speakers and the roll bar speakers is extremely cheap. The noise isn't really audible from the sub anyway, because its bass only, but I wonder what would happen if I hooked the front speakers to my expensive amp just temporarily to see if it removes the speaker whine... Hmm something to think about.

Thanks,

(O|||||O)

By the way. You like whitewater kayaking? I assume you've heard of Great Falls? I live in McLean, about 10-15 minutes from Great Falls Park (I don't kayak, but I've seen other nuts doing it there).

Yep. I'm one of those nuts you've probably seen doing it there. :) That's one of the first things I checked out when I moved up here. I've been to the falls about 10-15 times. I haven't run down them yet (they are Class VI+ rapids, and they could easily kill me) but I play around in the wave trains and the holes beneath the falls where the overlooks are. That is pretty fun. :)

We should have a little get together (perhaps with squid2k1 and anyone else in the area) and do some empeging

Sure! Great Falls would be a great place to go. Lots of place for BBQ and fun, or if people need a more central location we could choose someplace else. I myself live in Ashburn, which is about 15 minutes the OTHER direction down 7 from Great Falls (I'm about 30 from McLean). If we go when it gets warmer I could also go kayakin. ;)

Anyway, lets set something up sometime!

(O|||||O)

PS: Anyone who is reading this and is also in the DC area, let us know where you live and if you'd be interested!

I wonder what would happen if I hooked the front speakers to my expensive amp just temporarily to see if it removes the speaker whine

If the cheap amp is the source of the ground loop, just swapping speaker wires won't make the noise go away... the cheap amp has to be disconnected from the RCA signal cables to remove the ground loop.

___________
Tony Fabris

If the cheap amp is the source of the ground loop, just swapping speaker wires won't make the noise go away... the cheap amp has to be disconnected from the RCA signal cables to remove the ground loop.

Right. What I meant to imply was I would completely remove the small amp from the equation and only use the expensive amp to temporarily test to see if I heard the noises through the front speakers.

Just a miscommunication. ;)

(O|||||O)

Okay, first off, if it sounds like you pulled your own wire from all your speakers, and also provided your own power and ground, what leads are you using from the factory wiring harnass? :) Or are you using the power and ground leads through the harnass to power and ground the empeg?

Yes I pulled all new speaker wire and power and ground for the amps. The empeg itself is running from the stock power and ground through the mess of adapters I mentioned. It is not grounded to the same point as the amps.

Okay, so you pulled out the cheezy factory Jeep roll-bar speaker wiring and installed your own and pulled it into your trunk? I assume your amps are grounded to the same position.

Yep, they lasted about a week. Both amps are grounded to a distribution block in the 'trunk' which is grounded to a seat mounting bolt.

I have one tiny 40W amp powering the front and roll bar speakers

If I had to place a bet I would say that this is your most likely problem. With that weak of an amp you probably have the gain cranked beyond what the amp will do without causing excessive noise. I am pushing about 60 watts/channel to my speakers so the gains on that amp are way low.

I would definately try wiring everything through your better amp and see if the noise disappears.

-Mike

I had that I bought a 50W for the fronts and that's when the noise problems started. I first checked to see if it was power-signal wire interferences-Nope. Then wondered if the fact the signal wires went close to the car computer was it-Nope. I proceeded to Radio Shack and purchased a Ground Loop Isolator (Cat. No. 270-054) that plugs between the Empeg's RCA outputs to the Amp's inputs and no noise problems anymore.

Radio Shack also had a similiar Isolator that hooked between the car battery and power wires to the Amps but I didn't try them after success with the aforementioned.

#090000695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

Yeah, I tried the Ratshack ground loop isolator on my system, and it didn't help... For me, the 90 percent solution was putting a noise filter on the power wire from the battery, then adjusting the amp gains properly. I'm pretty sure the remaining ten percent will be solved by a better amp for my front speakers.

___________
Tony Fabris

Well it was a Optimus Amp I used for the fronts maybe that has to do with it working.

#090000695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

Me: two broken shield wires on the internal sled connector due to cramped wire paths stressing the harness.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Just so you guys know, I *finally* got rid of the noise being introduced into my system. It turns out that it WAS quality of product that was the problem. The Road Gear 80W AMP was the whole problem. I bought a Jensen 200W Amp to replace the 50$ Road Gear amp (to drive my front 4 speakers) and it sounds great now.

Oh well, shows you what trying to cut corners gets you...

Thanks for the help in t his thread and the hundreds I started before with my problems. ;)

(O|||||O)

I *finally* got rid of the noise being introduced into my system. It turns out that it WAS quality of product that was the problem. The Road Gear 80W AMP was the whole problem.

Thanks for that information, it gives me more confidence to make my new amplifier purchase.

___________
Tony Fabris

Oh my, I can't believe you were trying to run on a $50 amp. I suggested that I might buy one of these a long while ago (before I had the empeg) and someone slapped me around for it. It's incredible the difference a good amp makes.

I think that regardless of whether I was going to buy the empeg or not, I would have added an amp to my factory system. It was such poor quality and the head unit did not have enough power to run.

Glad you got it fixed though. Hope to hear it sometime.

And remember, if anyone lives in the DC/Metro area, post here! (I'm guessing that MiloDC lives around here, but last we heard of him, I thought he was a bit unhappy with his purchase)

DiGNAN

For those following this discussion, I finally got my new amplifier, too. A Jensen 50wRMS x 4 thingy. This single amp replaces two separate old/cheap/crappy amplifiers with the single amp.

All ground loop problems have gone away and the whole system is very quiet now (and can also get a lot louder now).

I think this is due to a few factors: 1) Higher quality (more expensive) amp means better noise isolation and grounding circuits designed into the amp itself. 2) More amplifier power means that your amp's gain controls are turned down further when everything is properly adjusted, reducing the noise floor even more. 3) In my particular case, I reduced the number of components plugged into the same audio chain, so that's one less device to induce a different ground potential into the mix.

So if anyone out there is having noise issues, definitely give your amplifier a close inspection and see if it's really up to snuff!

___________
Tony Fabris