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#232262 - 03/09/2004 16:55 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Perhaps there was a carmera pointed right out the window and it was destroyed.

The point is, you need to line up about 20 "what ifs" to make this theory "something to think about" rather than going for the simplest explaination. It's human nature and ever since JFK was killed, Watergate and Roswell, we're always going to look at things this way. I guess it'd be a good episode for the XFiles.
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Brad B.

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#232263 - 03/09/2004 17:14 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
From my perspective, this (and all other conspiracy theories out there) all come down to three things: truth, trust and belief.

Truth: I was not there. I did not witness it happen. Even if I did witness it, I would have had to be on the plane to see what happened there, on the ground to watch the impact or in the building watching the approach. Fortunately, I was not. I will never really know the complete truth from any of those perspectives because I was not there.

Trust: Because I was not there, I must take into account other sources of information about what happened. I have to listen to witnesses, read reports, view media. But I must gather this (potentially conflicting) information and form judgements. What do I trust? Does this make sense? Much of the blind faith that was formerly put into both governments and media has been replaced today by distrust. Just or unjust, trust needs to be earned and is easy to break.

Belief: Eventually, I will formulate my own personal understanding of what happened. This is as a result of filtering the data from the "trust" phase and connecting what I know to be "truth" from my own perspective. This result can and does change over time based on changes in the underlying facts. Because this is a unique process for each individual, one person's belief will be another's fantasy.
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Paul Grzelak
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#232264 - 03/09/2004 17:19 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: pgrzelak]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Excellent post.
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Brad B.

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#232265 - 03/09/2004 17:26 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks!
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#232266 - 03/09/2004 17:31 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
you need to line up about 20 "what ifs" to make this theory "something to think about" rather than going for the simplest explaination.

Look at it this way. If it was some scientific experiment about how a cross-shaped object would penetrate reinforced concrete with regular glass-filled openings, I think we'd all be surprised if it turned out that the protruding elements didn't even damage the glass where they hit. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be possible, but I think that the people conducting the experiment would want to find out why.

In this case, it seems some people have tried to find out why, but no one really involved in the investigation itself.
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#232267 - 03/09/2004 17:31 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I agree 100%.
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#232268 - 03/09/2004 17:44 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: wfaulk]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
True, but what about if the glass was really 1" thick polycarbonate?
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#232269 - 03/09/2004 18:38 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: genixia]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Hmm. Hadn't considered that. I suppose it well could be. I'd still think that there'd be more significant fracturing of the concrete layer above the reinforcing bars.

But that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Personally, it offends me more to hear "don't talk about it because you'll offend the dead" than "hey, I don't see how it could have happened that way" followed by a "well, here's a possible explanation".
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#232270 - 03/09/2004 20:17 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Quote:
But I do find it surprising that a single, blurry frame from a single security camera is all that was recorded.

Remember how long it took for video tape to be found of the first plane hit in New York? That being a city with a much higher population count, and likely more tourists out and about with camcorders. And still, we on't found one good video of the first impact.

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#232271 - 03/09/2004 20:51 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: drakino]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
Quote:
And still, we on't found one good video of the first impact.


unless it has already been siezed by the FBI

:P

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#232272 - 03/09/2004 21:41 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: RobotCaleb]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I heard that we have the cure for cancer but (insert current president's name) won't release it because the medical health system makes more money from treating cancer victims than it does curing them.
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Brad B.

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#232273 - 04/09/2004 01:54 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
I heard that we have the cure for cancer but (insert current president's name) won't release it because the medical health system makes more money from treating cancer victims than it does curing them.



And I have invented a carburetor that will make your Humvee get 80 miles per gallon and cut pollution by 90% at the same time. I'd tell you how it works, but the Big Oil Companies (tm) have paid me a lot of money to keep it off the market.

tanstaafl.
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#232274 - 04/09/2004 13:59 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: drakino]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
And still, we on't found one good video of the first impact.


That video at the root of this thread also seemed to focus on surveillance cameras that were *nearby*. Depending on configuration, this could be a disadvantage. Cameras that provide continuous surveillance don't necessarily record at a high frame rate and it's common for economical systems to record at one frame per second (and maybe even less). Depending on view angle....let's see... at 250 MPH that would be about 400 feet in one second.

With respect to Pentagon exterior construction, as much as I detest the deceitful "we had information that the committee did not have" political culture currently prevalent in Washington, this probably qualifies as a case where I don't reasonable expect the Joint Chiefs to send me detailed construction drawings and materials specs.
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'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#232275 - 04/09/2004 14:41 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: jimhogan]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Security cameras also have horrible resolution and contrast. Because of the cheap lenses, the focal depth is shallow and some have wide angle lenes that further distort. A blurry focus plus fast moving object plus too high of a contrast setting can cause some weird effect that are magnafied when you have few lines of pixels.
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Brad B.

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#232276 - 04/09/2004 18:33 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: tanstaafl.]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
I heard that we have the cure for cancer but (insert current president's name) won't release it because the medical health system makes more money from treating cancer victims than it does curing them.


And I have invented a carburetor that will make your Humvee get 80 miles per gallon and cut pollution by 90% at the same time. I'd tell you how it works, but the Big Oil Companies (tm) have paid me a lot of money to keep it off the market.


Meta-conspiracy theory:

Pentagon was actually hit by the hijacked airplane as advertised, but certain elements within the government structure want the public to believe otherwise.

Discuss.

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#232277 - 04/09/2004 18:56 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: bonzi]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Oh I like it! Kinda like the one where the government wanted us to beleive in UFO's so we'd pay less attention to their fleet of spy planes and test aircraft.
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Brad B.

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#232278 - 04/09/2004 21:50 Re: I recently ran across this. [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Oh I like it! Kinda like the one where the government wanted us to beleive in UFO's so we'd pay less attention to their fleet of spy planes and test aircraft.


Area 52.
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Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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