#233749 - 23/10/2004 23:53
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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game cash cows are sequels. It certainly seems to be the case this year. People were and are clamoring for such games as HL2, Doom 3, Halo 2, etc
I probably don't understand the term "cash cow" enough, but isn't it generally something where its creation cost is far far less than the loads of cash it will bring in? And the creation cost is low typically because the product is already in motion or it's something new that's reusing many existing elements?
When I think "cash cow", I think of Austin Powers 2, which was exactly the same as Austin Powers 1 but with different words and a few different people. Its analogy in the gaming world seems to be a sequel that uses the same engine as the original but with different maps and maybe a few new guns / characters / enemies (ie: Thief 1 & 2?).
I don't see Doom 3 and HL2 falling into this potentially vastly incorrect definition of "cash cow". Sure, they are riding on the reputation of their predecessors, but they are entirely new creations; new engines, plots, physics, etc. It's not like some Commander Keen trick where sequel after sequel are built on the same codebase. If ID and Valve cash in on Doom 3 and HL2, I think they deserve it. ... Not that you were saying otherwise.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#233750 - 24/10/2004 00:10
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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This seems unfortunately true so I wonder if there is "another way." I don't know much about this, but don't many companies "reinvent the wheel" by creating their own engine for their game?
Not all the time. Lets see, current FPS engines I can name off the top of my head available for license:
Doom 3 engine from iD software
Unreal Engine 3 from Epic Megagames
Lithtech from Monolith
Source from Valve
And most of these are very capable of being used for other things. The Unreal Engine 2 has been used for a MMORPG called Lineage II, and was being used on another.
There are also MMO specific engines that can be licensed like NeL from Nevrax and Mafate from NPCube. Physics engines like Havok and Karma.
Even licensing this technology leaves a lot of work to be done. Art has to be created. 3D models are getting horribly complex, and Unreal Engine 3 works best with a high resolution model to examine against the same thing in low resolution. Think 8 million polygons for the high resolution and 8,500 for the low model for a character. You still need sound creation. You still need cinematics if the game calls for it, requiring even more 3d work. You need programmers still, because the engine simply knows how to display graphics. It still has to be told how a weapon works, or what an item should do when interacted with. Thus, a lot of work = a lot of money needed.
Oh, it seems GU Comics agrees with my paranoia over buying from Steam.
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#233751 - 24/10/2004 15:44
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Even licensing this technology leaves a lot of work to be done.
I would even take this further, and say that most of the work is in the assets and not the engine, whether you license or not.
FireFox's idea of using existing middleware to bring down development costs is not a new one. As you said, it's been in the industry for many years already. For your typical game, whether you're using an existing game engine or you're coding it from scratch, you still need about the same number of programmers working on it. What the pre-bought engine saves you is ramp-up time, allowing you to get assets in place and start playtesting that much quicker.
I've been thinking about this a bit, and this is where the difference between the music industry and the game industry is the greatest... A single musician or a very small group of artists, either with no help or the help of a very minimal production team, can make Sergeant Pepper or The Joshua Tree. While this was also true of games many years ago, it's not any more, thanks to the incredibly powerful realtime graphics of the latest PCs and consoles. Now, making a game is much more akin to making a hollywood movie, and you've seen the budgets and the production credits for those.
The only place where making games is still like making records today is on handheld devices, where the small screen means fewer artists are needed. And interestingly, the direct-to-consumer model already exists in that industry, on cell phones.
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#233752 - 24/10/2004 16:18
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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A single musician or a very small group of artists, either with no help or the help of a very minimal production team, can make Sergeant Pepper or The Joshua Tree.
A newspaper article this weekend credited the modern technology that makes this true with Brian Wilson's recent release of "Smile." Basically, the young guy, Darian, who leads Wilson's backup band (The Wondermints) could take the 30 modular pieces Brian did in 1965 and rearrange them seamlessly/endlessly/instantaneously for Brian on his Mac. Get Van Dyke Parks to add a few lyrics and Boom! there you have it....
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-- DLF
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#233753 - 24/10/2004 19:36
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 30/12/2001
Posts: 83
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The only place where making games is still like making records today...
I hope this discussion is merely an extension of my loose equivlance of the RIAA to game publishers. I wasn't trying to say that the game industry is the same as the music industry. On the contrary, I was trying to point out that many of the RIAA players are very similar in their business model and practices as game publishers.
There are some hugely popular games that have been made by a small group of people, in some cases even one. Counter Strike is a perfect example. It was originally put together by a couple of guys at home. Yes, it's a mod, but you could argue that fact about many games that use licensed technology (especially full-engine packages like LithTech, Unreal, Quake and now Source). Sure, Valve threw people at the mod to port it to Source, but for the past five years it's remained largely unchanged during its reign as the "most played online game".
The game industry is probably more similar to the movie industry than the music industry. Piracy is rampant, a few big companies make most of the industry decisions regarding "creativity" and which projects get the green-light and distribution channels are almost monopolized. Unfortunately, the game industry is still struggling for legitimacy despite US$7B in sales mostly because of its inherent appeal to a younger audience. Other problems continue to plague the industry as well, such as the "don't hire anyone over 30" attitude and associated low pay scale which combine to cause a decidely less mature and less respectable environment (at least as seen from the outside world).
All of this aside, the bottom line for me is this: If I can get the same game online, especially if it's a few bucks cheaper, all the better for me.
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#233754 - 31/10/2004 22:29
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Just gotta love those ragdoll physics in the Source engine.
(Please note that the attached photo is a body at rest, hence my ability to capture it from multiple angles during gameplay.)
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#233755 - 31/10/2004 22:42
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Hmmm, a well placed hook perhaps? 
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#233756 - 31/10/2004 22:45
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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ROFL  "That's GOTTA hurt!"
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#233757 - 31/10/2004 22:49
Re: HL2: Preload or purchase?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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