Yup, my wife is pregnant with our first, and it's due around the end of April / beginning of May. Long-time readers have heard me talk about going test-driving cars for fun, but now it's actually for keeps. Right now, we've got my wife's 1997 Acura Integra GS and my own 2000 BMW Z3 coupe. Both two door, manual transmission. We have a two-car garage, not terribly large. My Z3 has actually been working just fine lately, so I'm less inclined to trade it in. The Integra has lots of little things wearing out, although it would probably continue running just fine if we wanted to keep it. Let me briefly describe our needs, and then we'll throw it open for people to yield up their advice.

Given the forthcoming baby, we're clearly going to need a real back seat, and from every parent I've ever spoken to, we really need a four-door car. I've also been told that we only need one family car, at least in the beginning. A second family car, if necessary, can wait a few years. One of my concerns with any replacement car is its width. Space in the garage is relatively tight, so even a few extra inches might be an issue.

Right now, the front runner(s) are the Acura TSX and TL. Both are available with a manual transmission. The TSX is three inches skinnier than the TL and has fold-down back seats (advantage TSX). The TL has buckets more horsepower, memory power seats, and a much better-sounding stereo (advantage TL). The TSX stereo has an accessory input that, with a third-party adapter, would allow me to mount an empeg, while it's unclear if you can do that to a TL (advantage TSX). Of course, if we ditch the Integra, then the empeg stays in my BMW.

What's the competition? The Honda Accord or Toyota Camry would be attractive, if generic, but the V6 and the manual transmission are mutually exclusive. The new Acura RL sounds very swank, but it's pricey, it's even wider, it's automatic-only, and I'm hesitant about getting a first model-year car. Other cars on my test-drive list are the Mazda 6 V6, Subaru Legacy GT, and maybe even the Saabaru 9-2X. The Subaru/Saab cars don't have a nav system, which is a minus to me. I'm not sure about the Mazda. I suppose I should also check out Nissan and Infiniti, although I'm concerned about torque steer in the Nissan models ('cause you gotta have that huge 3.5l V6), although the G35 Sedan is certainly something I need to look at again. Last time I looked at it, I really hated the interior. (Nissan used to do really, really nice interiors. These days... uggh.)

That's pretty much it for sport-luxury-four-door cars from Japan. What about the U.S. or Germany? The reliability numbers plus my own experience on the German & Swedish cars scare me. Nothing really exciting in four doors seems to come out of Detroit, e.g., the Chrysler 300C is just too big, and the PT Cruiser doesn't have the luxury features.

Am I missing something? Do I need to swallow my pain and go get a BMW 330i before it gets Bangled to death? Do I have enough time to wait for the new Audi A3 to come out (the old A3 isn't available in the U.S.), and do I want to get a first model year Audi?

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That's pretty much it for sport-luxury-four-door cars from Japan. What about the U.S. or Germany? The reliability numbers plus my own experience on the German & Swedish cars scare me. Nothing really exciting in four doors seems to come out of Detroit, e.g., the Chrysler 300C is just too big, and the PT Cruiser doesn't have the luxury features.

Faced with the need for 2 car seats, my friends, at my suggestion, took a look at then bought a Passat wagon a few years back. VWs have their problems, but they have been very happy overall.

I think this is very much a personal thing. Child seats fit in the back of most 2+2 sports cars just fine so I personally wouldn't make a move until he/she (or maybe even they?) are past the todler stage.

Of course, there are two other considerations: firstly you'll probably be lugging an extraordinary amount of support equipment (nappies, bottles, changing mats, clothing, pushchair, etc) around - can you fit it all in your existing car? Secondly, children are an expensive business (or so I am told) so money may be a factor - you could probably make a tidy little profit from selling the Z3, for instance.

Probably not helping - sorry!

Different class of car, but I went from a SAAB 9-3 to a Toyota Prius and couldn't be happier. Lacking some "luxury" features, but mine has GPS DVD based NAV, auto A/C, ABS, VSC etc. Plenty of room, plus folding rear seat. The only thing that I would add are power seats with memory...I kinda wish I had that... but..

you can add you empeg to the system!

http://empegbbs.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/19155/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

Peter
Miami, FL USA

Yeah, I was going to ask, is the Prius right out?
Prior to 2004 it might have been on the small side, the 2004 seems like it'd be plenty big.

Congratulations Dan!

We got through most of our son's first 4 years with a Golf as the family car, and it didn't put us off from long roadtrips. That being said, I'm 5'10" which is about the limit of comfort for the passenger when you have a car seat in the rear. We still managed to pack enough gear in the Golf to go on week long camping trips too.

My wife recently replaced her MX3 with a Mazda6 Sports Wagon which is a fun car. Handles very nicely, and is larger, although so far in 2000 miles it's only managed 19.2mpg (80% highway miles - supposed to get 21 city, 26 highway IIRC.)
I'd also recommend checking out the Passat. At this point it's issues are well known.

Both the Mazda6 and the Passat will need a gizmo to add an auxillary input to their stereos. Both have physical mounting issues wrt an empeg. Bear in mind that your new car is going to be the one that you end up using on long family roadtrips; Thanksgiving, Christmas, vacations etc., so this might become an issue (I think my wife may end up with a Karma for Christmas).

My wife feels the Prius is ugly. As far as I can tell, she places it in the same category as a minivan. (Our top-secret wedding vow: "no minivan".) I might be able to sell her on an Accord Hybrid, though.

Minivan isn't pretty, but I've gotten 150k miles out of the $2k, so...

Hey! I love my Grand Caravan SE. It holds all four kids and the camping gear, or kids and luggage for two weeks/2500 mile trip, or a weeks worth of groceries from Costco...and w/the 3.8L gets 25mpg+ and has no lack of pickup. It's no sports car to be sure, but it's not so bad--besides, it's paid for!

...and the empeg fits in there too.

For reference, my sources claim a width of 67.301" on the Integra and 68.5" on the Z3.

I'm thinking that almost anything is going to be wider than those.

And I feel the need to point out that I haven't had any real reliability problems with the Volvo. It has been in the shop a number of times, but that's more due to the shop's incompetence than problems with the car; I've only had about three problems, but it always seems to take then\m two or three trips to get things right, including bothering to order the parts that they need for the problems I've told them about beforehand.

Plus, the empeg fits pretty well, if you hadn't seen my post before about it.

That being said, I don't think I'd reccommend anything other than the R. I've driven a lot of them as loaners and they all suck. They drive like boats and the interiors feel cheap -- even the leather. (Maybe I'm just spoiled, though.) Of course, they haven't given me a T5 as a loaner, only base models.

Or you could go full-on family and get a V70R wagon.

And, by the way, congrats to you and the wife.

If you've got four kids, you clearly need a minivan. With one kid, we're hoping we can get away without one. It's stressful enough to be considering buying something as large and ungainly as a four dour sedan. Now, if we end up with additional kids later, then we'll probably be forced to look at something bigger.

I'm going to make sure we have a good look at the Volvo S40 T5, and maybe consider something bigger like your S60R. Smallness is a big feature for us. My hesitancy comes from the Consumer Reports and JD Powers numbers. Your dealer incompetency experience is very similar to my own experience. I want a car that's reliable enough that I never have to find out anything about my dealer's incompetence.

To be clear, it's not really reliability things. It's DOA type stuff, like my vibrating shifter, a squeaky seat belt, a won't-unlock (probably just improperly installed) seat belt, a loose rod or something in the ceiling that caused a buzz, a leaky power steering pump, etc. None of it has had anything to do with the engine, suspension, or chassis. Actually, there has been one recall, which was just an improperly torqued nut in the steering linkage, IIRC.

On the other hand, it has been to the shop more times than I'd like. But the alternative is an Oriental or American car, and, honestly, every one of those I've been in lately just feels cheap, including the supposed luxury ones. (I really need to take a picture of my Mom's Lexus's dash to point out all the terrible UI faults.)

I think you should go and drive a 2-3 year old Mercedes E320 Wagon. It is available in 4WD (this is the 4Matic option). These cars are bullet-proof and routinely run for over 300,000 miles. This is a $55k car that can be picked up a couple of years old with 30-40,000 miles on it for around the price of a loaded V6 Camery. There is just no comparison.

The US models are automatic only, unfortunately. They are quiet, comfortable, fuel efficient, safe, powerful, and built like a tank. They have among the higest reliability ratings of any car on the road. European cars tend to be narrower, as well. They also seat 7 (!) with a folding rear-facing seat in the back.

Really, trust me. Go and drive one. Probably the best built car on the road today, and definitely the safest.

Jim

Congratulations, and good advanced planning. I'll recommend performance station wagons as the best solution. You'll need the trunk space, and if garage depth is not an issue (or can be fixed), you might as well.

I second Bitt's recommendation for Volvo, but my 2000 V70 (wagon) has had far less problems in 50k miles (its second 50k miles, I bought it used). And yes, the dealerships are terrible, so find the local Volvo guru mechanic (by asking neighbors who have them) and take it to him instead. Might as well get an R to satisfy the need for speed, and if you try real hard, you might be able to get one in manual.

Then there's Dodge Magnum. All the practicality that your wife wants with all the power that you want. No, not manual (which is why I don't have one), but you can't complain about the ~320HP (?) under the hood. It's apparently built like a Mercedes, so hopefully it can be trusted.

I'll also second genixia's Mazda6 Sports Wagon. I don't know much about it, but it's got that power/practicality thing again.

And I couldn't go without seconding TigerJimmy's Benz E320 recommendation. If you don't mind buying used, this would be the one. And if you're adventerous like me, you might just call Germany and see how much it would cost to import a (used?) one with a manual.

Good luck and keep us posted!

I have no idea (except for generally leaning towards either sport wagons or what we here call "monovolumes"* which is not the same as American minivans), but I certainly want to congratulate!

*) I am currently eyeing a Peugeot 407SW

So today we managed to test drive an Acura TL; we drove a TSX a few months ago. We also looked at the Mazda 6's and the Volvo S40's.

The TL is nice. Oodles of power, manual transmission, unfortunate but tollerable torque steer. Very nice stereo. Gadget-freak-friendly navigation system. Bluetooth phone integration. Power memory seats. Now just shrink it down a little.

Ahh, the navigation system. If I didn't have my gadget-heart set on one, then there would be so many other interesting options, but I really do want one, and that knocks out the used car market, even for robust cars like the Mercedes E320. A full-size wagon would have no hope of fitting in our garage, and I need to take the tape measure out tomorrow so I know whether the TL will even fit. If not, well, we've been pondering other reasons why we might want a larger house.

The Mazda 6's are intriguing, particularly the hatchback version, where the seats fold down and give you a huge flatbed for hauling loads of stuff -- particularly important as that's one of the occasionally invaluable features of the current Acura Integra. The interiors... feel cheap. My wife was really turned off. Now if Mazda did a luxury division... oh wait, it's called Volvo.

We went to the local Volvo/Porsche/Jaguar/BMW dealer (*sigh*), and it turned out that they didn't have any S40 T5's with manual transmissions on the lot. The salesman was trying to push a 2004 S60R "with only a couple hundred miles on it," saying that those T5's are hot and are selling for list price. (A Volvo? Hot?) Just sitting in the car in the showroom, I wasn't terribly impressed by the pretty new center console. The buttons are all very tiny and crowded together, plus the corner of the console is just exactly where I want to lean my knee on a long drive. Bump. Ouch.

I'm thinking I need to have another look at the Lexus IS300 and its optional navigation system. The gauges are an embarassment and the engine drinks gasoline, but it's a mature car that's unlikely to have mechanical reliability issues. When I last test drove one, I was put off by the traction control always kicking in far too early. That probably hasn't improved any. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to wait for the new allegedly forthcoming successor.

I grew up in the 80's with a VW Jetta, nice fun car, inherited the 85 jetta from my parrents when I was old enough to drive, beat the crap out of it. After a few years of other random cars, I got into a situation where I wanted a new car, so i got a 2000 Jetta GLS, put my empeg in it the first week I had it, and I still love it.

Have you considered the PDA based navigation options ?

That way you can use them in any car and you don't have to worry about finding the car with the right nav system.

It is also cheaper, in the UK at least. A builtin nav system is typically a £1000-£1500 option in the UK. A decent PDA, memory card, decent mounting kit, GPS and something like TomTom Navigator adds up to about £750.

The downside is that it is another thing to take with you when you leave the car (I leave the GPS in the glove box and the mounting kit, I only take the PDA with me).

The other good thing to this approach is that you can upgrade the software as it improves, not an option on a built in system.

A buddy of mine has the Magellan PDA-based system. Seems to mostly work, although they aren't as easy to use as the built-ins, plus having this thing on the dashboard just screams "steal me". Also, the built-ins combine GPS with wheel sensor data, so even if they can't find the satellite, they can still do dead reckoning for a while, e.g., in an underpass or in a downtown area with tall buildings. And, you actually do get a software upgrade when you buy new map data. It's all on the same DVD. Likewise, with the 8" touch screen and voice recognition, it seems like they did a better job on human factors than you could ever do on a PDA gizmo.

On the flip side, every time I'm in a rental car in a strange city, a PDA gizmo would be a big improvement over nothing...

I took a tape measure out to the garage. From the garage door to the oposite wall is 20 feet. There's about two feet worth of boxes and things piled up in front. So, that's 18 usable feet of space. The garage door is 16 feet wide, so 8 feet per car.

18x8 feet = 216x96 inches.

The Acura TL is 189.3 x 72.2 inches, giving me a margin of 27 inches, front-to-back and 24 inches side to side -- basically one foot of space on every side, if you park it absolutely perfectly. A TSX is six inches shorter and three inches skinnier -- not really different enough to make size be a defining issue between those two choices.

Interestingly, the Volvo S60 is 180.2 inches long and 71 inches wide (much smaller than I thought). The Volvo S40 is 176 inches long and 70 inches wide. A Saab 9-2X is 175.6 inches long and 66.7 inches wide. A Lexus IS300 is 176.6 inches long and 67.9 inches wide. I guess the question for me and my wife is whether one foot of margin, all the way around, is enough or whether want the extra margin of a shorter car. Hmm... I wonder whether these width numbers include the mirrors?

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I wonder whether these width numbers include the mirrors?

No they usually do not. Welcome to the world of things we do at work when we are bored.