Now that I have an Empeg on the way again I am taking my P4 Car PC and converting it into a DVR/PVR Looking for suggestions on a good video/ tuner combo card MUST have a BUILT in Guide and menu system with remote was looking at the ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 with the built in gemstar system and RF remote but wanted input. Thinkin Freevo or maybe just use the build in software and run it on Win 2k.

Little 2.53P4 1G ram and 200G hd 7.1 Sound card nothing speical.,

For Windows you should only be looking at Snapstream's Beyond TV or SageTV in my opinion. Maybe Meedio (formerly MyHTPC, now commercial).

Nothing (software app) from a hardware company is any good, including the software that ships with the ATI products - especially the horrible Gemstar Guide+. You can use any number of capture devices with the above software. I'd recommend using something with hardware-based encoding. The only product from ATI I can recommend is the TV Wonder Elite (brand new, comes with a remote). Make sure it will work with the above applications - I'm not sure if they've verified that yet. Otherwise you should probably stick with a Hauppauge card like WinTV250 or something - lots of people have them and they're well supported by the applications above.

Any other solution running Windows is nothing like a TiVo (I suppose you could also try your hand at Windows MCE, as it's getting better). You'd be very disappointed by Freevo and/or MythTV if you were looking for anything like TiVo as well. At least that's my opinion after breifly setting up and running MythTV and reading about and viewing shots of Freevo interfaces/requirements online.

Bruno

When you say MythTV and Freevo are nothing like a TiVo what exactly do you mean? My Myth system has a complete 8 day guide for all the channels I receive, I can record multiple simultaneous programs, pause and skip backwards on live TV, use picture in picture. I've got web access, transcoding to a variety different formats, video streaming to my PDA, music playback, web browsing, etc.

Other than the recommending programs feature and the fact it’s not a simple plug the box in installation, I'm at a loss to figure out why TiVo is so revered.

You can do all that stuff with any number of programs, including the software that comes with Hauppage cards, Cyberlink's PVR software, ATI's Multimedia Center, etc... That doesn't mean they're anything like TiVo.

MythTV is over-engineered but underdeveloped. TiVo is as much about interface as it is about content. And its data content, thanks to Tribune Media Services, is 14 days worth - there's a big difference between that and 8. But the data volume is not what I had in mind when I made the comparisons.

I supose you have to use both to fully appreciate what I'm talking about. And that's the reason why most consumers take the otherwise crappy PVR solutions from their providers, simply becauuse they're told "it's just like TiVo" - not knowing the difference and how far from the truth that statement could possibly be.

TiVo was made for use on a Television. Every minute of using MythTV shows it was conceived on a computer display. I'm not saying much of MythTV's faults can't be remedied. But they do exist, in spades, with a stock/standard setup. You'd have to get deep into customization to make it clean, lean and fit well in a typical living room.

Bruno

So, in other words, it's like the difference between a typical consumer PC runing MS WinWhatever, and a Mac.

Except in this case both MythTV and TiVo run on Linux.

B

never Said I need it to be tivo, I just want a guild that is fairly correct they I can use to record what few shows on TV I care about. as for OS it could even run on the dreedY Mac and I wouldn't mind sure I would feel more at home if it ran on M$ but that is just me.

I gave you the recommendations for (by far) the best Windows software - they just happen to also be the best recommendations for any platform you put together yourself given your requirements of remote usage , menu system and integrated guide. There's nothing from ATI that comes with any kind of guide that's usable from a remote control. For Mac OS there's simply nothing with any kind of Guide that works with a remote from anyone - only web-based guide from TitanTV. For Linux you have MythTV and Freevo - if you want to spend more time sccrewing around with configuration than actually using the setup, good luck with one of those two.

Bruno

Bruno, I sometimes think we're looking at different software. I have absolutely no idea why you have such a downer on MythTV. I've never had to 'screw around' with Myth, it just worked. Take it from somebody who has used Myth for nearly 2 years now. As for the comment about it being under-developed, you've clearly not bothered looking at the cvs commits, there are people who seem to spend every waking minute improving, fixing and adding features. As for being over-engineered, what's wrong with that? Because it's design you can deploy it in a mind-boggling array of different configurations.

It pisses me off that you seem to take every opportunity to have a swipe at it. If you found it difficult to get going then maybe you need to brush up on your linux skills, because it was a piece of cake to get going and is a joy to use.

My point is that a finished product should not need any Linux skills. MythTV is a good platform from which to implement a custom solution, but it's not an ideal finished product in and of itself. It's something a few people can take and make an install disk for, polish up a nice interface and deploy on their own retail product. It's not something that even an above-average computer user would buy in a box to install on their own PC.

The problem with the over-engineering is that it's all too visible in its defualt config. There are just a dizzying array of options that never need to be shown to the user.

Think of it this way:

TiVo = finished consumer good (even it were only software that could be installed on a PC)
MythTV = TiVo-building construction kit.

Bruno

So Andy... fancy building me one?

The biggest problem with TiVos is user interface speed. It can be very slow, especially with big hard drives. I was hoping that my HDDirecTiVo that has a big drive from the factory would be faster than my modded one of a similar size, but it's not.

Have you tried the CacheCard? I have one but I'm only using it as a nic right now. When I get some memory for it, I'll let you know how it goes.

AFAIK, they only exist for S1 TiVos, and the HDDirecTiVo is a S2.

I don't think we have to follow through with the fact TiVo is a complete boxed solution. I did write "even if it were a software app" - because the recommendations I gave were for install-yourself, but finished (in a consumer-friendly manner), software applications.

By the end of the year, when Microsoft is selling more Media Center OS versions than non, most people won't find this an issue at all. Don't know when you'll see it in a retail box with CDs alone, but I know you'll be seeing it in place of standard XP Home or Pro installs you see now shipping with boxed systems.

Bruno

Slow processor makes for slow UI. But it keeps the costs down and it's the only reason the systems don't cost as much as an Intel PC.

Bruno

Since the CacheCards in the S1 machines speed up the UI tremendously, it's obviously not a CPU issue. Also, the fact that adding more hard drive space results in the UI slowing down would seem to direct one away from a CPU conclusion.

Lack of memory and a big DB with contention for IO is what is slowing the TiVo UI down. I've installed a CacheCard with a 512MB DIMM and it improves the speed significantly.

The biggest problem with TiVos in the US is user interface speed.

Bitt, when you say interface speed, do you mean every part of it? The only times that I see a problem with speed is when I'm adding or changing a recording. Sometimes adding a recording takes several minutes! This seems to be less of a problem on the HD Tivo, but still a problem.

I've got a 512MB cachecard in my series 1. It speeds up DB access, but doesn't alter UI performance. For most people the latency is in DB access (which you've described as UI speed), but I still find the UI itself sluggish when not hitting the DB. We were talking about two different speed measures.

The DB issue could also be improved with a better DB scheme I believe - but given the resource constraints in the box, it will never be lightening fast (even with a cahcecard). We done some tests with enormous amounts of content using SQLite and speed was nothing short of phenomenal even with modest amounts of system memory and definitely without a dedicated 512MB cache. But, big differences exist between our test platform and a TiVo box.

Bruno