After 11 years of valiant service I feel it is time to retire "Dexter", my trusty '94 Toyota Tercel. Dexter has served me well with no problems, but I am looking for something with more excitement.

I've had my eye on a Subaru WRX wagon for some time. A friend has one and I really like it. I have also noticed the WRX seems to find some favor here as well. The one issue I have with the WRX line is an apparent lack in the luxury options department, but they seem to make up for most of that in third party accessories. The question in my mind is do I really want to deal with "accessorizing" my new car? How does that affect warranties?

I have done a little research into similar cars and I was wondering if the Empeggers would like to chime in...

My Wish list:
Priced in the $30k range
All Wheel Drive (for those snowboarding trips)
Powerful and Fun to Drive (11 years of Tercel is starting to wear thin)
Navigation Options (I've been looking at the Pioneer AVIC-N1, looks interesting?)
Basic Luxury Options (Should be simple after the base-bones Tercel (which didn't even come with a clock!))
Manu-matic transmission (Not required, but an interesting option to me)
EMPEG COMPATIBLE

The last wish should be self explanatory... I would have thought that after all this time there would be a worthy successor to by beloved Empeg. I have yet to see one.

I have briefly looked into some other options, but I would really like to hear the experiences of the Empeg community might add... Please feel free to educate me.

Thanks,

Depends - do you count clock, Recaros, easy empeg compatibility as luxuries:-)

Get a Scooby (in fact, get a wagon - fit loads of snowboarding gear in) they're great

Saab 9-2X is supposedly more luxurious than wrx wagon and worth a look. Im not sure if the premium makes it worth it though.

I have been waiting to do the empeg install in my wrx wagon (mostly money and indecisiveness over components) the avic-n1 looks really cool but it only has 1 av input. Does anyone else make something with more than 1 av input?

You may want to look in to the new Subaru Legacys. They are very nice inside. The 2.5 can also be really fast.

Other than that, the Saab 9-2x is nicer inside than the WRX. Mainly in the seats and the noise control.

I'd take both for a drive. But the new Legacy might be a pain to get the empeg into.

If you get a WRX, any mods you do will to make it faster, not more luxurious!

I third the the advice that you should look into the 9-2x. The Aero version is basically a WRX with nicer interior, nicer looks (to most), better suspension, better steering rack (rack from the STi), and more sound dampening. I think all that only adds 14 lbs over the WRX, so performace shouldn't really be affected. If my Subaru SVX got killed tomorrow, I would look into the 9-2x. Also, it's selling very poorly so you may be able to get a sweet deal on them. Saab people hate them and Suabru people hate them. I roll with both crowds, so I hear about it a lot.

Another Subaru to take a look at might be the Baja. If you can get past the looks (I happen to like them), the turbo version is going for around $23k which is pretty nice for the price. I think the car is based on the previous-gen Legacy, so fitting an empeg should be no problem.

The Saab 9-3 SportCombi was recently annouced. It's nice, but I haven't seen a solid price yet. It's also front wheel drive, but it does snow in Sweden you know.

As an un-official VW+Empeg fan, I reccomend the VW R-32.. it's basicaly a VW Golf with a 240hp VR6, and AWD.

Unfortunately, they were a limited production car, so they are harder to buy new now.

I really really really wish we could get the damn AWD option for the jetta/golf here in the US.. if they released the AWD option for the golf here, I would trade in my Jetta in a heartbeat. I would have gotten an R32, except I'm not looking for the $30k range, more like the $20k range.

I have to chime in and suggest an Audi. I love mine! I have a '99 A6, and except for the price, it is all there. And the tiptronic transmission is fun! It's really great when going up the canyons to ski, just leave it in third, and have plenty of power. I have install pics on riocar.org of how well my empeg went in. But I suggest taking a look at them. They may have more luxury options than you are looking for, but one of the things that sold me on mine was the interior styling.

Another one worth mentioning... The Subaru Forester Turbo! The head mechanic at the Subaru dealership here has one, and with mild tuning (very mild) it will smoke a stock WRX yet it still has all the cargo room of a WRX wagon. Total sleeper!

For what it's worth, I've had three Saabs and loved them all, but the repair bills were killers. Their front-wheel drive goes thru 3 foot snowdrifts (Alaska) like a knife through butter, however. I now have a Subaru Legacy wagon with most of the frills (bought it second-hand) and thoroughly enjoy it despite no empeg. The Saab has more power, but mine has more than's anywhere legal, and both the initial cost and upkeep are substantially lower. If you can do your own repairs or cost is no object, though, the Saab is more fun...!

You obviously didn't get a turbo in that Legacy.

I think you should go drive a 2 or 3 year old Mercedes E class. The E Wagon is definitely going to be my next car. I can't say enough good things about them. Without the factory navigation system, empeg install is standard DIN. Someone on this board has integrated the empeg with the onboard computer / navigation system.

You need to drive this car to believe it. I don't think there is a better built car on the road. This is a $60k car that you can get used for around $30k with about 35-40k miles on it. These cars routinely last for over 300k miles.

Specifically, I am looking for a 2001 or so E320 Wagon 4-Matic (4-Matic is Mercedes term for their all wheel drive) with Xenon lights, orthopedic seats, cold weather package and without the navigation system. I hope to buy one by the end of the year. I'm about to roll over 200k miles on my current car and want to replace it.

Definitely worth your while to drive for comparison sake.

Jim

The nav system and empegability makes for very few choices. Acura's got a great nav system and the Acura TSX stereo has an aux input, to accomodate the empeg, or at least it did in the older ones. I don't know about the newer ones that have built-in XM radio. The Acura TL, though, has everything integrated together, so no easy empegization.

Subaru pisses me off. They've got the slot in the center stack where they install a nav system on the Japanese-market cars, but it's not an option on any of the U.S. models. Had it been there, I would have looked seriously at the Legacy GT.

In most new cars, though, you're going to have trouble with aftermarket stereos. Several manufacturers are offering different levels of iPod integration, which may or may not be good enough for you.

Thanks for all the great comments... they are an great help. A lot of these ideas are ones I have considered which really helps me feel I am on the right track.

I'm currently looking at the 9-2x and the Audi as they compare to the WRX. It's a shame I can't seem to find much about the availability of the VW R-32. That looks like another interesting option.

I have also put the Baja back on the test drive list... it's such an odd beast. Ugly, but proudly so.

I went and fiddled with the Pioneer AVIC-N2 at the local Car-Toys and it looks really interesting. A lot of options like rear cameras and voice recognition. Only problem is no one seems to keep the navigation DVD in the player... Any comments on the Subaru sound system? If I go that route should I get it and replace the head unit or just build from scratch?

Please keep the suggestions coming... I really appreciate it. Does anyone have any install pics of the Empeg in a 2005 WRX or 9-2x? I am going to check out the Audi pics right now.

Here are some empeg/WRX install pics. You can email me with questions as well. I did mine and helped my buddy put one in: http://www.persiconi.com/wrx/images/audioinstall/install.html

You can keep the Subaru wiring, but the speakers are made of paper and have TINY magnets. The speaker install on my page is overly complex. My buddy did a better job of ordering some speakers that fit with less modifying. I can contact him for model numbers.

The Subaru headunit is a dual DIN 6 CD changer. Pretty nice I guess. But what's really good is that you can replace it with an empeg AND a headunit. So the head unit can power your speakers and you can reuse the factory wiring. Jim Hogan went this route.

My page is for a 2002 WRX. My buddy's was a 2003 WRX. The 2005 WRX has the same guts (as does the 9-2x).

The upgraded speaker options and subwoofer options are worthless on the WRX. The money you'd spend on it could better be spent on some really nice aftermarket speakers.

EDIT: I think my page would apply to an Impreza based car. For example: Forester, Baja, Impreza RS, 9-2x, Impreza WRX STi, Impreza Outback. The Legacy is where you start running into issues.

I have a few pics of the Empeg installed in a 2004 WRX. They're near the end of the photo gallery - here (if it's still active).

Also, for anyone looking to get a WRX, I have to recomend this:

Imagine if when you purchased your WRX, there was a little checkbox for a $595 option that included the following:

1) 260HP / 260 ft-lbs (instead of 227hp)
2) A security device that would make your car impossible to start when activated.
3) Better fuel economy during normal operation.
4) The ability to put your car into "valet-mode" so that anyone driving your car could not rev the engine past 4,000rpm or get full use out of the turbo.
5) Even better fuel economy when the car is put into "Economy mode" during highway drives.
6) The ability to go back to "stock" with the press of a button.
7) Full upgradability to all of the above features via serial port whenever upgraded features are released or when you make changes to your car such as exhaust, bigger turbo or injectors.

And you can install it on your car in 20 minutes with NO TOOLS.

I'm not making it up. It's the Cobb Accessport. You'd be in good company too: In addition to myself, several other empeg owners have one of these including my friend Nate and Jim Hogan (I think Loren ordered one too?).

When I installed my VF30 turbo and injectors, I was able to load a free, specially configured map on my accessport in the matter of seconds and drive away with 320hp!

The AccessPort is also available for the Forester XT, STi, Legacy GT and Outback XL.

Sounds like a great toy. How much better is the fuel economy in "economy" mode? Anybody out there blown an engine, clutch, or whatever by cranking out all that extra power?

I would like some numbers too, but it's a known fact that the WRX runs very rich (just look at the black soot on your muffler) so the tune "leans" out the mix a bit. A leaner air/fuel ratio means a bit more power (if done safely) and less fuel used.

The general acceptance is that the stock trans on the WRX is its weak point. Most people think 300-350hp is its limit.

The signal to noise ratio at www.nasioc.com isn't as good as it is here (understatement) but I've gathered most of my information from there and from calling Cobb directly.

I've had mine for about a year at "Stage 2.5/320hp" with no issues. Knowing that nobody can start my car even if they hotwire it was worth the price for me.

I really appreciate the WRX install pics. Thanks!

I spoke with the installer at Car-Toys in Totem Lake (Kirkland, WA) and he recognized my Empeg as "oh, it's a Rio..." He suggested installing the Empeg in the bottom slot, as I was considering a flip screen Nav unit for the top slot. I noticed both of your install pics show the Empeg in the top slot. Will the Empeg fit in the bottom slot cleanly? By cleanly, I mean without cutting into the bezel..?

I have heard about that Accessport device before. It sounds all most too good to be true! Is there anything i should be aware of with it? It claims to be undetectable, but I would have to assume it must void the warranty? What kind of mileage do you get with the economy mode? It really sounds like a must have...

No, you'll need to trim the bezel, just slightly to get it to fit. Since the bezel is wider at the top, it requires less trimming up there, but I see how putting the nav. system up top would be best. Jim has pictures of two headunits (empeg + aftermarket) in a WRX at riocar.org somewhere. Here we go:
[image]http://riocar.org/albums/album73/aae.sized.jpg [/image]

More Images.

Technically, the Accessport would void your warranty, but since it can't be detected, it doesn't matter. I have done a ton of stuff to my car and my dealership still honors my warranty as long as what breaks isn't due to what I did. Altough, the only thing that happened to my car was a "known issue/almost recall" type thing. Been very reliable other than that.

Not sure on fuel economy. But since you also get 30+ more horsepower, you may actually get LESS mileage because you drive it harder.

Hmmm... can you give me more info on the "almost recall" thing? Just out of curiosity...

I am starting to get worried. All my research keeps bringing me back to the WRX wagon. The Saab is tempting, but the increased price doesn't seem to equal the benefits (although perhaps the reduced noise might sway my opinion.) As my personal preferences start to zero in on the WRX that bezel is worrisome. From the install pics it looks like they might have to cut into the bevel at the lower corners to fit the Empeg. I'm not sure how I feel about that...

Saturday is the planned test drive day... Currently on the menu are the WRX and the Baja. Then perhaps the 9-2x and the Audi A4. Again, thanks for all the info everybody.

Oh... does anyone want to buy a slightly used Toyota Tercel?

By "almost recall" I simply meant "Technical Bulletin" but couldn't think of the right word before hitting the "Submit" button. It only affected 2002 WRXs, and only the first few thousand of them. In very cold weather (VERY), I could detect a slight gas smell when I started my car. When I brought it in, they knew the cause because Subaru had issued a repair process for it and told dealerships to keep an eye out for it. It was never a safety issue, and was never wide spread, so there was no recall. ## I forgot to tell them that I have an aftermarket fuel pump that is putting my fuel system under a higher pressure, but I doubt they (my dealership, not Subaru) would have cared since it was a "known issue".

Anyone who has a 2005 WRX has the benefit of 4 years of experience that Subaru has gained from making the WRX. I got mine in 2001 and it was the first year they had made the "New Age" Impreza. Since then, they have made slight improvements to the suspension, refinded the interior and offered more options.

The 9-2x isn't selling that well, so you may find one with a really nice price on it. I love the look of the exterior and on the inside, you can't really tell you're NOT in a Subaru. Especially when you hit the gas. The best of both worlds!

Nearly all of the "go fast" bolt on parts for the WRX will fit the Saab (I never thought I'd modify my car, but once I got it, it was hard to resist) except for the computer related stuff like thte Accessport. I guess the ECU isn't the same, and since there are fewer of them on the road, not many companies are researching it. This may have changed since I read into it a year ago.

With the bezel, you won't be able to tell it's cut when everything is in, but I admit, I was nervous as hell when I did it. If it weren't for Jim's photos, I probably would have chickened out.

TIP: When cutting the bezel, apply painter's tape to the surface. You can use this to "draw" your cut lines. I then used a razorr blade to trace these lines so that if the paint chipped, it would chip on that line. Then, you simply "cut and test", "cut and test" until you get a snug fit. You can always get a new bezel if something bad happens.

PS: If you've never driven a turbo car before, you may wonder what all the fuss is about with the WRX at first (like I did). The car feels kinda "dead" when not over 3,000 rpm. Once you get the hang of it, you'll always know what gear to be in so you're always in that sweet spot - then the car will really come alive. It may "feel" slow until you get the hang of it, but remember, they can do 5.4 second 0-60 times stock.

THough you may not be looking for am SUV, the Saturn Redline Vue is a very nice choice. Honda powered 3.5L 250hp with a 5 speed automatic, add the vtec chip and your sittin' just under 300hp. It is very quiet to drive and has lots of nice luxury options, also AWD is an option. Plus, no dents, WOO-HAH!!!

JAY

I finally did it... more to follow.

(I'm grinning so wide my face hurts.... )