#255505 - 05/05/2005 19:21
AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Kendrick pointed me to a cool, inexpensive Bluetooth adapter from AirCable. The one I bought and received today is the AirCable Serial Female. I ordered the wall wart power supply to go with it, especially since it was only $5. There was no shipping cost, but it did take them a week to get my order into the mail. Total cost: $74. The unit is small and light, about the size of the serial cable end of the Empeg null modem cable. It is a DTE device. It is configured by plugging it into a PC serial port and using a terminal program to send it commands. It can take 5-15V at 50mA over pin 9 for power. It supports the following Bluetooth profiles: SPP (Serial Port Profile), DUN (Dial-up Networking), LAN, OBEX. I've just used the SPP one so far. Most everything is configurable, including the name of the device, pin, etc. Their website has more information on it, including a command reference for the serial interface. So what can you do with it? Like mlord wants to do, you can use this as a replacement for your serial cable with your Empeg. I've watched the familiar serial log scroll across my laptop's screen, connected via BT. I had to switch the hardware flow control switch off on the adapter to let me send output, but it works like a charm. I'm going to add code to Palantir to allow you to send your playlist over BT instead of IrDA. I'll probably write a remote display and control app for the Palm, over BT. You can probably pair it with your phone to allow your Empeg Internet access. Do you have a BT hands-free kit in your car? There might be a way to use the Empeg as a caller-id display. Let's see what cool projects can come out of this!
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#255506 - 05/05/2005 19:48
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay, I want (at least) one of those suckers, maybe two.
Mark, can you buy a couple of them and then remail them to me? -- pending exact details (below). I can paypay you afterwards.. much cheaper for me this way than buying "direct" from them, since they only ship UPS ground to Canada (VERY expensive on the receiving end here).
Is the power supply necessary for the Empeg, or does it work just fine with pin9 power from the empeg?
Thanks
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#255507 - 05/05/2005 19:56
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Oh yeah, it'd be very very cool to have Palantir over BT.
And after that, I'd like to use Palantir over BT, but with some means for it to download the database from a running Empeg (possibly requiring an extra app running on the empeg, or enhancements to the existing app).
Really really cool!
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#255508 - 05/05/2005 19:59
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: mlord]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
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Quote:
Is the power supply necessary for the Empeg, or does it work just fine with pin9 power from the empeg?
Documentation is no substitue for first hand knowledge, but http://www.aircable.net/AIRcable/manuals/SerialMan.html
says 5 - 15 VDC on pin 9 and use pin 5 as GND.
What would happen if that voltage is provided by the dock and a regular serial cable is used?
--Nathan
Edited by Mataglap (05/05/2005 20:02)
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#255509 - 05/05/2005 20:11
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: Mataglap]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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To partially answer my own question -- in the car dock, no power exists on pin9. Ditto when in a mlord Home Dock, though that's easy enough to fix with a simple internal wire.
Dunno about the empeg back panel yet, though.
Cheers
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#255510 - 05/05/2005 20:13
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Mmm.. before we get too carried away with it all, somebody should configure pppd on the empeg serial port, so that we can use personal lan or some such stack on the Palm/PocketPC end of Palantir.
Then neato things like Palm Web Browser over BT could simply talk to the Hijack httpd server.. As could any BT-enabled notebook web browser.
Edited by mlord (05/05/2005 20:14)
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#255511 - 05/05/2005 21:50
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I have been hoping for something like this to BT enable my Garmin GPS.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#255512 - 05/05/2005 22:55
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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#255513 - 05/05/2005 23:12
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
To partially answer my own question -- in the car dock, no power exists on pin9. Ditto when in a mlord Home Dock, though that's easy enough to fix with a simple internal wire. Dunno about the empeg back panel yet, though.
No power on the Empeg back panel. I am going to wire up my dock to give it power on pin 9, and probably eventually rip out the sled to wire it up with power, too. I'll probably buy another module for in-car use only. As to what Mataglap said:
Quote:
What would happen if that voltage is provided by the dock and a regular serial cable is used?
I'd like to know that answer, too!
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#255514 - 05/05/2005 23:18
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Oh yeah, it'd be very very cool to have Palantir over BT.
Absolutely! None of those pesky line-of-sight problems anymore! I'm working on it now.
One thing you can help out with, though is the ability to open the serial port (for BT access) with my Empire app, but also allow commands to be written to /proc/empeg_notify. dbrashear was talking about doing it, but if you are going to be a user I'd think you would want this feature added, too. 
Quote:
And after that, I'd like to use Palantir over BT, but with some means for it to download the database from a running Empeg (possibly requiring an extra app running on the empeg, or enhancements to the existing app).
It can be done - I would have to rewrite the code to generate the Palm pdb file from Java to C to run on the Empeg. I rely pretty heavily on the fact that in jEmplode all the track info is stored in java objects in jEmplode, mschrag did a superb job exposing all aspects of the database to plugins.
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#255515 - 05/05/2005 23:21
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: tman]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Rolf did this ages ago...
Yeah, I remember seeing what he had done. For sure I am not the first to think of this, kendrick saw the opportunity too, and pointed me to the serial adapter I bought. Rolf's adapters were very, very expensive and large at the time, and I didn't want to spend ~$250 on an adapter just then. $69 is much easier to justify.
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#255516 - 05/05/2005 23:22
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: andy]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
I have been hoping for something like this to BT enable my Garmin GPS.
Also, anyone who uses gpsapp might be able to use a Bluetooth GPS module with the Empeg now.
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#255517 - 05/05/2005 23:36
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
Rolf did this ages ago...
Yeah, I remember seeing what he had done. For sure I am not the first to think of this, kendrick saw the opportunity too, and pointed me to the serial adapter I bought. Rolf's adapters were very, very expensive and large at the time, and I didn't want to spend ~$250 on an adapter just then. $69 is much easier to justify.
Ouch. $69 is way better!
I think Kim (something like that?) did an internal Bluetooth mod. He disconnected the IrDA serial port and rewired it to a small Ericsson Bluetooth module. It's in the riocar.org gallery I think.
If you're really ambitious I guess you could get one of the Linux support PCMCIA Bluetooth cards and bolt it onto the internal IDE bus with a FPGA or whatever to interface...
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#255518 - 05/05/2005 23:53
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: tman]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
I think Kim (something like that?) did an internal Bluetooth mod. He disconnected the IrDA serial port and rewired it to a small Ericsson Bluetooth module. It's in the riocar.org gallery I think.
Yeah, I saw that one, too (Kim Salo) but I didn't want to cannablize my IrDA port.
Quote:
If you're really ambitious I guess you could get one of the Linux support PCMCIA Bluetooth cards and bolt it onto the internal IDE bus with a FPGA or whatever to interface...
Problem is our kernel does not support any BT devices as far as I can tell. Bluez is only supposed to work in 2.4 kernels and up. I thought this was an obstacle until the serial port devices appeared. There are several that are similar to the one I bought, but they are all at least $150.
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#255519 - 06/05/2005 00:15
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Kim (something like that?) did an internal Bluetooth mod. He disconnected the IrDA serial port and rewired it to a small Ericsson Bluetooth module. It's in the riocar.org gallery I think.
Yeah, I saw that one, too (Kim Salo) but I didn't want to cannablize my IrDA port.
If the bare modules are cheap enough (doubt it) then you could make your own version of the AirCable. The IrDA port is quite important for you I guess because of Palantir
Quote:
Quote:
If you're really ambitious I guess you could get one of the Linux support PCMCIA Bluetooth cards and bolt it onto the internal IDE bus with a FPGA or whatever to interface...
Problem is our kernel does not support any BT devices as far as I can tell. Bluez is only supposed to work in 2.4 kernels and up. I thought this was an obstacle until the serial port devices appeared. There are several that are similar to the one I bought, but they are all at least $150.
Didn't know about BlueZ only being in 2.4.x.
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#255520 - 06/05/2005 00:57
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
What would happen if that voltage is provided by the dock and a regular serial cable is used?
I'd like to know that answer, too!
No harm to anything. Pin9 is normally 12V "[EDIT] ring indicator" on a fully wired DB9 serial port, which is why these modules can use it for power in many setups.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (06/05/2005 00:59)
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#255521 - 06/05/2005 00:58
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
One thing you can help out with, though is the ability to open the serial port (for BT access) with my Empire app, but also allow commands to be written to /proc/empeg_notify. dbrashear was talking about doing it, but if you are going to be a user I'd think you would want this feature added, too.
I can definitely see that happening in the not distant future.
Cheers
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#255522 - 06/05/2005 17:54
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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journeyman
Registered: 08/08/2001
Posts: 51
Loc: CA, USA
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Quote:
It can be done - I would have to rewrite the code to generate the Palm pdb file from Java to C to run on the Empeg. I rely pretty heavily on the fact that in jEmplode all the track info is stored in java objects in jEmplode, mschrag did a superb job exposing all aspects of the database to plugins
Why not just save the Palm pdb to the empeg as a normal file why syncing in jEmplode? Hell, you should be able to put the whole palm app on the empeg and just "transfer" the app via IRDA or BT as though the empeg was another Palm...
_________________________
Ryan here... Empeg [08000462] 40 Gig with Subaru WRX sport wagon attached... (still! pending memory + LED upgrade, sheesh, I've been sitting on my ass for years)
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#255523 - 06/05/2005 18:10
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: rbenech]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Quote:
It can be done - I would have to rewrite the code to generate the Palm pdb file from Java to C to run on the Empeg. I rely pretty heavily on the fact that in jEmplode all the track info is stored in java objects in jEmplode, mschrag did a superb job exposing all aspects of the database to plugins
Why not just save the Palm pdb to the empeg as a normal file why syncing in jEmplode? Hell, you should be able to put the whole palm app on the empeg and just "transfer" the app via IRDA or BT as though the empeg was another Palm...
You're absolutely right. I was thinking about this today with the database, but I didn't think about putting the app on there, too. I'll have to investigate how the OBEX profile works with the AirCable - what I have to do to use it over serial.
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#255524 - 06/05/2005 19:25
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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If we set up pppd on the empeg, to do TCP/IP over serial over BT, then the Palantir app could just fetch the DB on the fly from Hijack's web server.
Assuming a simple enough format for .pdb files (dunno), I could enhance Hijack to generate it on the fly on demand from the player's real database file and/or tag files.
Cheers
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#255525 - 06/05/2005 23:30
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Lots of good possibilities here. Let me get beaming playlists over BT done first, then I'll think about how to do the PDB over BT thing! Next week I will likely have time to get it pretty much finished.
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#255526 - 07/05/2005 00:10
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
I have been hoping for something like this to BT enable my Garmin GPS.
Also, anyone who uses gpsapp might be able to use a Bluetooth GPS module with the Empeg now.
I would imagine it would work, since bluetooth gps are just serial (rs-232) over bluetooth, basically.
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#255528 - 09/05/2005 15:10
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: Daria]
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member
Registered: 09/12/2003
Posts: 150
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Awesome that you were able to make use from the Bluetooth Adapter, cant wait to use Palantir with it. This will make my parties even better, I can DJ the party while dancing from my Bluetooth Palm
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#255529 - 14/05/2005 21:33
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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At first pass, it doesn't seem to want to pair with my Treo. No clue why. I type the Pin the P command assures me it has into the Treo, it screws around a while longer and tells me "FAILED".
I guess maybe later I will poke some more. Bleh.
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#255530 - 14/05/2005 22:58
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: Daria]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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There is a debug mode with the adapter - ^A X1 turns it on. This might give you some more info.
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#255531 - 15/05/2005 01:30
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
There is a debug mode with the adapter - ^A X1 turns it on. This might give you some more info.
PAIRING
pin_code_reqest
pin 40150
pair_cfm
getting link_key
pin_code_reqest
pin 40150
pair_cfm
pairing timeout
pairing cancel
pairing fail
FAILED
It's like it's not bothering to finish in the alloted time.
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#255532 - 15/05/2005 02:06
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: Daria]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Hrm.. dunno. Hopefully you'll get a reply on the AirCable board. Does it work with SPP? You can test using BTSerial.
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#255533 - 15/05/2005 14:41
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Hrm.. dunno. Hopefully you'll get a reply on the AirCable board. Does it work with SPP? You can test using BTSerial.
Well, wait, if it won't pair, before I've even told it that I care about DUN, should this even tell me anything?
For that matter, i suppose if it's a question of services I could try pairing with dun disabled.
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#255534 - 20/05/2005 00:15
Re: AirCable Bluetooth Serial Adapter
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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The two DB9F AirCable adapters I now have here work very well as serial port replacements for the new notebook computer (sans serial ports) with BT.
Thanks, Mark!
I've just now put together a DB9M--DB9M null-modem cable to let me use them for other devices around here (embedded boards, mostly), and they're working well (and easily!) enough that I'm not even going to bother getting a more conventional USB--serial cable.
Cheers
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