#272374 - 17/12/2005 15:08
Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Hi,
My Mac Mini has started freezing on bootup, I get the startup sounds and the grey screen, then blue screen and the OSX Loading screen, that goes ok, then I get a blank blue screen.
I do get the small circle timer for a while and I can hear the HD going, I then get a small black mouse pointer in the top left, that goes and the screen stays solid blue.
Any ideas? It does't sound like the HD to me. I have tried booting from the startup disk but now that is just stuck in the machine.
Cheers
Cris.
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#272375 - 17/12/2005 15:20
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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#272376 - 17/12/2005 15:43
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've had my ibook stick at around that point before, usually after a big upgrade or security fix. I've had it sit there for 20 minutes on one occasion which worried me then all of a sudden the desktop appeared. I ran a few recommended diag tools which didn't point to anything. It's a shame these Macs don't have HD indicators, as I'm sure I heard the HD was rattling away at the time.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#272377 - 17/12/2005 15:54
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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A lot of advice given in various Mac sites appears to cargo cult style instruction. Running the file permissions checker. Backing up your home dir and then restoring it. Resetting the PMU and PRAM on a regular basis. All of this is done as a preventative measure even when they've not changed or installed anything. Invariably they don't know why they're doing it but they were told at some point to do so to fix a problem and therefore continue.
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#272378 - 18/12/2005 02:45
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
A lot of advice given in various Mac sites appears to cargo cult style instruction. Running the file permissions checker. Backing up your home dir and then restoring it. Resetting the PMU and PRAM on a regular basis. All of this is done as a preventative measure even when they've not changed or installed anything. Invariably they don't know why they're doing it but they were told at some point to do so to fix a problem and therefore continue.
That would seem to be more of a hold over from pre-X days. Then most anything could be cured by deleting the preferences files. One or all. I found that true conflicts between pieces of software to be rare. Problems that were solved by clearing the PRAM, even more so.
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Glenn
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#272379 - 18/12/2005 06:45
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Thanks for the links!!! I find Apple's support site very confusing !!! The first 3 options don't work, the machine can't boot into Safe Mode  I have a USB PC keyboard, and I can't get the last option to work as I don't have an Option key to press and hold, any ideas? (my Apple KB is bluetooth and doesn't seem to be working before bootup). Another problem is the disk in the drive, how do I get it out? How to I tell the mac to boot from the CD at start up? That could be one solution, it's the original recovery CD that came with the machine this's stuck. Cheers Cris.
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#272380 - 18/12/2005 06:50
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Just hold down the "C" key on the keyboard as it boots.
You might also try a Command-V on boot. It should show you what's going on during the boot and might allow you to figure out how to fix it. Or it might not be getting that far. From your description, I think it is, though.
Edited by wfaulk (18/12/2005 06:52)
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Bitt Faulk
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#272381 - 18/12/2005 06:58
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Ok, figured that one out, you use the Windows key.
But! I can't type anything at the command prompt, i assume this is because a USB Windows Keyboard isn't supported under the command prompt? Right?
I can say that in all my years of computer cock-ups working with the Apple is the biggest nightmare of them all, you are tottaly in the dark. I suppose Windows are so used to cock-ups they have a first class recovery system to back it up, Apple has nothing, very disapointing. There are thoughts of the mini going in the bin right now!
Cheers
Cris.
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#272382 - 18/12/2005 07:49
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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This is why I never got another Mac after my first one died (many, many years ago) I could never work out what was going on when it wouldn't boot or whatever. Much more comfortable pulling Wintel's apart.
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#272383 - 18/12/2005 20:55
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Quote:
But! I can't type anything at the command prompt, i assume this is because a USB Windows Keyboard isn't supported under the command prompt? Right?
It should work fine. I've yet to find a USB keyboard that doesn't work at any point on a Mac.
Edit: The other key command to try is command-s while booting. That will get you into single user mode where you can do a fsck, repair permissions, etc. If you get that far someone here can probably walk you through the obvious checks.
-Mike
Edited by mcomb (18/12/2005 20:58)
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#272384 - 18/12/2005 20:56
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Quote:
Another problem is the disk in the drive, how do I get it out?
Hold down the mouse button while the computer starts up. Keep holding it down until it ejects the disk.
-Mike
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#272385 - 19/12/2005 01:23
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Is it possible that your keyboard's gone bad and that's what causing all the problems?
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Bitt Faulk
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#272386 - 19/12/2005 17:08
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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OK, I'm back up and running. I managed to eject the disk and boot from my OS-X Tiger disk, and re-installed selecting to keep all user settings, and the desktop came back up after a reboot. The only wierd thing is that the time and date have reset to 1994, I wonder if that has anything to do with it? I am doing a software update now so I guess I will soon find out if it was something to do with an update  Overall I am not very happy with OS-X at the moment, it leaves you high and dry without any idea what to do. I guess this is to make you take it down to your local Apple centre and pay them to put it right. Thanks for all the tips, they were very helpful Cheers Cris.
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#272387 - 19/12/2005 19:41
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
The only wierd thing is that the time and date have reset to 1994, I wonder if that has anything to do with it? I am doing a software update now so I guess I will soon find out if it was something to do with an update
If you reset the PRAM, this likely did it. PRAM is Mac speak for BIOS in the PC world (at least the popular term, not the nitty gritty tech details). PRAM holds the clock setting, along with some other things.
Quote:
Overall I am not very happy with OS-X at the moment, it leaves you high and dry without any idea what to do. I guess this is to make you take it down to your local Apple centre and pay them to put it right.
Any more high and dry compared to a Windows PC? It is different to troubleshoot an Apple machine. I find recovering from an error on an OS X machine generally easier, due to the unix underpinnings. That combined with the ease of reinstalling without losing things is very handy.
The links above were some pretty decent documentation on how to recover from a problem on Apple.com. I can't say I've ever found similar on any other major computer maker site without digging deep down. 3 clicks from Apple.com and I have a detailed list of things to try if my Powerbook doesn't turn on. 8 clicks on HP.com for my desktop here at work, and I can't even find a similar document. I'm stuck instead sitting here looking at things like "HP PC or Workstation - Why Does the Cursor Behave Erratically?" trying to find a document explaining why it might not power on.
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#272388 - 19/12/2005 20:38
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Ah, but what if you had no internet connection and no prior experience with recovery of OS-X?
Under Windows at least the systems gives you options, ie Your PC failed to start last time, would you like to boot to Safe mode etc.... OS-X just gives you the same screen each time, no error code, no hints, nothing! Just a blue screen.
And when I did get to command prompt I couldn't type anything. The keyboard I was using works just fine on the mac when I have tried it in the past, and I tried it just now and again it's fine.
The option of re-installing everything without loosing my stuff is great, but there is nothing to support a simple End User such as myself, for that you must pay. I bought a mac to get away from this kind of thing. I now have a bitter taste in my mouth, there isn't even a hardware fault, I have uninstalled nothing and the system now appears fine. so it must be something in the OS that cocked up. Right?
Why can't I just have a system that works 100% (although I see hardware will always fail at some point).
Edit - I have a PC downstairs that runs my servers (CCTV, music and video) it's on 24/7 and has been for almost a year now, it runs XP Pro SP1, never locked up, never crashed. It's 1 - 0 to XP at the moment in this house. Coming to think of it the only times XP on my laptop has locked was my doing, so maybe that's 2 - 0 to XP?
Cheers
Cris.
Edited by Cris (19/12/2005 20:42)
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#272389 - 19/12/2005 21:04
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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How often have you seen safe mode do anything useful?
What I'm getting at, just to avoid all the rhetoric, is that, whether it be Windows or MacOS, you have to find an expert to fix it when it breaks. It just so happens that you're something of a Windows expert. Due, in part, to the fact that Windows screws up all the time and you're forced to be.
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Bitt Faulk
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#272390 - 19/12/2005 21:51
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
How often have you seen safe mode do anything useful?
Every time some luser needs memory resident spyware deleted. Though I'm becoming quite attached to BartPE, which seems to be much better than safe mode for a lot of things.
Matthew
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#272391 - 19/12/2005 21:56
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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True, but you still have to do something expert-y once you get into safe mode. If you're expert-y to begin with, then whatever magical bootup key sequence on the Mac is equivalent would also be something you know.
My point being that safe mode in and of itself doesn't do anything. It's just a tool for an expert.
It's not as if when you car breaks down, a spark plug wrench shoots out of the dashboard at you.
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Bitt Faulk
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#272393 - 20/12/2005 20:23
Re: Mac mini Freezing on Bootup - Any Ideas ?
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Ah, but what if you had no internet connection and no prior experience with recovery of OS-X?
The option of re-installing everything without loosing my stuff is great, but there is nothing to support a simple End User such as myself, for that you must pay. I bought a mac to get away from this kind of thing. I now have a bitter taste in my mouth, there isn't even a hardware fault, I have uninstalled nothing and the system now appears fine. so it must be something in the OS that cocked up. Right?
Chapter 4 of the small CD sized manual that came with your Mini. Includes the instructions above on how to eject a stuck disk, along with instructions on how to reload OS X. It then also includes phone numbers for the Apple support department, that at least here in the US is actually good. I had been struggling with some broken spotlight folders in Mail about 3 weeks back, and finally decided to call. Wish I had earlier, as the tech got it back to a working state in about 30 minutes. It did take some time as it wasn't an easy issue to solve, something deep down got corrupted, but because of his skills narrowing it down, it got fixed in one call.
True, the Apple phone support is limited beyond 90 days if you don't have an extended warranty, but that seems common across the industry.
I think in general people need to remember a Mac is not like a Windows running PC. If you threw a broken Windows PC in front of a person who knew Macs, they would be just as confused at first. While XP does do the safe mode automatically, I have never had it be useful. Even recently with spyware infested machines, safe mode has never worked to clean it up, a format and reload was mandatory. And of course my recent lockup issue with my own XP box gave no hints as to what was wrong or why it hung on the XP logo screen even entering safe mode. It was only by chance that I unplugged a USB drive and it started working again.
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