Same exact hardware except for the extra RAM in the Rio model...

-Tony
MkII #554

Same exact hardware except for the extra RAM in the Rio model...

Well, I'm sure there are some other minor changes, but nothing that would affect functionality in any noticeable way.

I'd actually be curious to know what all those other minor changes are between the Empeg and the Rio. For instance, has the "negative spike" problem been corrected? Have the AC power connectors been changed so that they don't run the risk of the intermittent home/car sense failure? Things like that.

___________
Tony Fabris

Well, how about PC software?

The PC software is the same for all models, even the Mark 1. I'll go add that to the FAQ.

___________
Tony Fabris

Wondering if it is possible to 'piggyback' some extra ram into a MKI???


TommyE

The mk1 can have 16mb, yes - there are pads for another 4 ram chips on the bottom of the board. Never tested, and you'll have to hack the kernel, but the pads are there ;)

Hugo

Ok, I'm officially confused now. I need a score card on this ram thing.

Rio Car (Mk2a?) has more ram than a Mk 1.
Mk 1 has empty pads where a "Real Hacker" could add ram.
.......(been there, done that, on early computers I've owned)
Rio Car and Empeg Mk 2 are essentially the same player with minor diff's.
.......Is one of those diff's the amount of ram in the player?
...........If so are there empty pads in a Mk2 also?

Glenn

PS. How do I make lines indent like an outline. This dang thing keeps eating my leading spaces.

Rio Car and Empeg Mk 2 are essentially the same player with minor diff's. Is one of those diff's the amount of ram in the player?


Yes.

Mark1 < Mark2 < Rio Car

The wheels of progress roll on.

If so are there empty pads in a Mk2 also?

I don't know. But even if there were, why would you care? All three products function just fine as-is with the amount of RAM they've got. The extra RAM won't make them do anything new, and then it wouldn't do any good without a hacked kernel anyway.

Okay, they'd cache a bit more. But they all do a really good job of keeping the disks spun down anyway.

___________
Tony Fabris

I've never met a computer that didn't, at some point, benefit from more ram. Arguably the empeg shouldn't be one such, it being primarily intended to run a single application.

However there is an open OS running on it and the feature creep has a tendency to steal ram whenever possible. Look at the many blue sky ideas already expressed on this bbs, if even a few of them make it out of the hothouse, being able to add more memory could look like a good idea.

Glenn

Absolutely. More RAM = more goodies and more efficient caching. Despite that, I think I'll hold off on an upgrade to the RioCar, and instead wait for a more significant revision (MkIII)

-Tony
MkII #554

http://nerp.net/~ben/pix/empeg/101-0178_IMG.JPG

as you can see in that image.. there is no room for more ram chips.. unless there are pads on the underside of the board.. but i don't remember the empeg board being double sided. :(


12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

Edited by SuperQ on 28/02/01 07:14 PM.

Interesting. I doubt it's double sided too.

(By the way, take the caps out of his link and it will work)

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

yea.. oops.. sorry.. i renamed all the files about an hour after i posted that link.. :(

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

That image is from the Mark II boards, and there is no extra pads for memory. The Mark I boards did have the necessary pads on the bottom to double it's normal 8mb of memory to 16. The Rio-car boards are using higher density ram if I remember right, thus having 16mb of ram.

I was just verifying for tfabris that it was true that the II had no more room for ram space.

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

It is basically impossible to make a motherboard that is not multi layered. As in more than two. It is true that there are no parts on the underside but there are definitely traces there.

See here.


Brian

-See my empeg here-

I believe it's 6-layer. There's a cute place somewhere on the board were you can read each layer number through the fibreglass if you hold it up to the light (Patrick was showing off).

Rob

oh goody, hardware has already started to kick up ..blah

As far as board houses are concerned "double sided" means there are components on both sides. Only the simplest and cheapest of boards are 2-layer, or the top and bottom surface are the only metal layers. Typically boards have 2 plane layers (power and gnd) usually towards the center or edges to balance the copper content, and then around 2-10+ routing layers depending on the density of the nets. Of course there are a number of different stack-up possibilities.

I'm impressed the empeg card is only 6 layers. To me, it looks like it'd be at least an 8, must have been a skilled place and route guy that doesn't like to waste layers :)

#080000512 green 12GB

Patrick (pca) routed the board.

Rob

Do you have any photos of the board (no components) so we can see the routes without voiding warranty?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

I wonder how much I could get for one on ebay....

--
David
// I'm probably not speaking on behalf of empeg/SONICblue here...

Erm, I don't think so. Most people find it more interesting with components - you must be a real PCB enthusiast

Rob

Not specifically PCB, but I always enjoy seeing the steps that are used (raw materials, parts, manufacturing) to create "stuff", especially "stuff" I use every day. Things like seeing how CD-R media is made. That kind of thing.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

I assume you've browsed the empeg geek site then?

Rob

Many many times!!!

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Well... it was mostly autorouted, but patrick did the placement, tidyups, and special bits (like the PSU which is layout critical)

Hugo

Thanks for the link, Tony. I didn't see it from the Rio site. In fact, I didn't see near enough information on the Rio site to pry >>$1000 from the hands of someone who hasn't already been seduced by the empeg site. There are hard drive mp3 players out there for as little as $500! Imho, Rio needs to put a lot more into their website to realize the market penetration that the car player deserves. Items of note would be:

-> Manual in PDF
-> Mention of Visuals, Hierarchical Playlists, etc.
-> Mention of the bomb-proof design beyond "skip free"
-> Mention of Linux/Open Source
-> Mention of Ethernet, TCP/IP
-> Mention of this site

I was driven nearly(?) insane waiting for my number to reach the top of the queue. I don't see the Rio site inspiring that level of devotion.



-jim <MkII:080000260 18G blue>

Agreed, especially because Empeg was far ahead of the competition and now the competition, although not in the same ballpark, is at least in the parking lot. Rio needs to make some things happen with the Rio car, and fast, or some of these other inferior but cheaper products are going to dominate the market.

-Tony
MkII #554

The empeg site will shortly be rebranded as a Rio Car site, and include the same level of detail that you were used to. It will be linked from the Rio site.

Rio also plan to add more content to the main site, following feedback at the Woodside meet.

Rob

The Rio Car player, in common with its predecessor, is aimed at the quality end of the market. If by "dominate the market" you mean ship the most volume, competing products will certainly achieve this in comparison with the current Rio Car model. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

Rob