#282256 - 31/05/2006 10:49
MacBashing
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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#282257 - 31/05/2006 11:47
Re: MacBashing
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Finally!
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Brad B.
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#282258 - 31/05/2006 13:35
Re: MacBashing
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yeah, because it clearly has nothing to do with a superior security model.
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Bitt Faulk
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#282259 - 31/05/2006 13:46
Re: MacBashing
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I was referring more to frames 1 and 4.
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Brad B.
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#282260 - 31/05/2006 14:19
Re: MacBashing
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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If anyone genuinely thinks that's "subliminal", he seriously needs a reality check. It's obvious and it's intended to be obvious.
Also:
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Bitt Faulk
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#282261 - 31/05/2006 16:19
Re: MacBashing
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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In no way are they saying it's subliminal. The fact that they go so out of their way to bash PCs without being subtle is the complaint.
I'm not sure why you're directing any of this at me. However childish, I just thought it was funny and "about time" that Macs got back some of their own medicine.
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Brad B.
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#282262 - 31/05/2006 16:51
Re: MacBashing
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
The fact that they go so out of their way to bash PCs without being subtle is the complaint.
They are also bashing one of their largest software supporters (Adobe) with those ads. When they say a Mac is better at "life stuff" like webpages and photos, it can be taken that Photoshop and Dreamweaver on the PC is useless. Of course, this isn't the case at all.
As stupid as admitting a PC is better at making a spreadsheet is, saying a Mac is better at "life stuff" is absurd. Every webpage I see hosted by .Mac is a total piece of ugly, outdated garbage. If this is supposed to show the outside world what a Mac can do with a webpage, it's not very impressive. In fact, it's despicable they would make you pay for such a thing.
Now, I have no problems with OSX existing. Claiming that running it makes you somehow better than Windows users is nuts. I have some experience using OS 9 and previous. These operating systems were total trash with no redeeming value what-so-ever. They were slow, unstable, and you had to hunt for compatible hardware. OSX is a big leap from those, but it's not the second coming of Christ. I use Windows most often in my daily routine (Linux a distant 2nd), but I don't go around shoving it in people's faces like some sort of religious experience.
Enough already! We get it, you hate Windows!
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#282263 - 31/05/2006 18:19
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
They are also bashing one of their largest software supporters (Adobe) with those ads. When they say a Mac is better at "life stuff" like webpages and photos, it can be taken that Photoshop and Dreamweaver on the PC is useless. Of course, this isn't the case at all.
These ads aren't aimed at the professional level where people actually know how to use Photoshop and Dreamweaver. These ads, and the iLife applications are aimed at normal consumers. Joe Bob isn't going to go buy Photoshop for $649 just to remove red eye from Jenny's birthday pictures. Nor is he going to pay $399 for Dreamweaver to then post those photos to a website that he also would have to be paying for. iLife is a consumer level application suite with easy to learn interfaces. Overall, it's the first package to do this well out there, and remain "cheep". For a bundeled application, it kicks the crap out of what I have seen included on Dell and HP systems for usability and what it can accomplish.
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Every webpage I see hosted by .Mac is a total piece of ugly, outdated garbage. If this is supposed to show the outside world what a Mac can do with a webpage, it's not very impressive. In fact, it's despicable they would make you pay for such a thing.
This has nothing to do with the programs, and everything to do with the common people using them. Seen myspace.com? Thats what happens when you let the mass public get their hands on easy to use web creation software. The Mac includes this and pushes the .Mac service to allow people to host whatever crap of their family or personal lives that they want.
These ads for the most part do speak the truth. Take an out of the box PC, Mac and throw in a digital camera and printer. Odds are the common consumer will have the Mac up and running, saving photos, and printing them much faster then the PC.
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Claiming that running it makes you somehow better than Windows users is nuts.
I personally don't do this. It is after all just a computer, and to completly judge someone based on their choice for a computer is insane. I do however find my daily workflow of non creative stuff goes along quicker with a Mac. I used it daily at HP to do my job, and I am working on getting one at my new job as well. Sure, I can do my work on a Windows box, but I do it quicker on a Mac. And the OS X platform was completly new to me a few years ago. My willingness to try new things really turned out for the best here.
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#282264 - 31/05/2006 18:42
Re: MacBashing
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
My willingness to try new things really turned out for the best here.
I'm not unwilling to try something new, but I can agree with most of your points based on the experience I know you have. I don't know what comes bundled with a Dell or Compaq, but I can imagine it's crap probably written by a Taiwanese company. That's partly Microsoft's fault, but I'm assuming they will adapt to the "iLife" scheme at some point.
Personally, I'm quite comfortable with a *nix command line and have tried multiple times to make the switch to Linux on the desktop. It just can't be done on my PIII 800MHz laptop. All the (mainstream) window managers have gotten to the point of uncontrolable bloat and getting wireless networking running smoothly on Linux is impossible. That laptop (Dell Latitude X200) is what I commonly use at home and Windows runs great on it. I rarely feel any lag associated with a sub-GHz machine.
I think OSX would be something I can get into and maybe use more efficiently than Windows. I almost pulled the trigger on the 13.3" Macbook due to the size and price that seemed to compete with similar PC laptops. I also favor smaller laptops. Here's the problems that are holding me back:
* Reports of black paint peeling
* Reports of overheating (Apple should have concentrated on this since MacBook Pro)
* A video I saw of the fans cycling on and off infinitely while the CPU was idling. (Completely unacceptable since the X200 is silent)
* $200 more for 20GB up space plus a black case? (white is not an option)
* 1 mouse button. Since I plan to dual-boot Windows, this will be a bit annoying.
* I find the lack of a card slot slightly odd. A PCMCIA card is more likely to sit flush with the laptop's case when a future peripheral comes out. USB dongles sitcking out is stupid.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#282265 - 31/05/2006 19:24
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Does anyone even make PCMCIA anything any more?
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Bitt Faulk
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#282266 - 31/05/2006 19:35
Re: MacBashing
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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You can get PCMCIA data cards compatible with all the major cel phone vendors. Beyond that, the only other purpose of a PCMCIA slot is to hold a CompactFlash adapter...
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#282267 - 31/05/2006 20:58
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Hmmm.. Adobe software does suck though. Unfortunately, with the latest stuff, I can't tell you if it sucks more under Windows or Mac OS.
Adobe applications makes Microsoft applications seem like a lean, mean, bug-free speed-deamon. I'm starting to feel really sorry they acquired Macromedia...
I use Adobe software every day, so I'm as qualified as the next guy to give such an opinion. Just today I've had to terminate and restart GoLive 10 or more times (it has a habit of crapping out while scanning remote FTP directories after sending up a file). Illustrator and Photoshop have so many performance and drawing bugs it's scary.
Bruno
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#282268 - 31/05/2006 21:01
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
Here's the problems that are holding me back:
* Reports of black paint peeling
I saw that. If you look into it, it is actually one report of paint peeling, with the same photo over and over and over on a million websites all referring to the same guy at an apple store with a cameraphone. I think it is nonsense, find me two different photos of this.
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* Reports of overheating (Apple should have concentrated on this since MacBook Pro)
I read a few of those reviews. The Arstechnica Review has a guy running his Macbook at apparantly over 80 degrees C where it clocks itself down a few MHz - that is pretty ridiculous. Mine has not got so hot. When browsing and doing my daily messing about the laptop is very cool, not even warm (like right now). I was watching the last episodes of Lost and 24 the other day over WiFi while running Parallels Workstation which was installing Ubuntu in a window in the background... it did get very hot. About as hot as my Powerbook G4 on full tilt, a little bit hotter than my old Sony Vaio (except that one had a crazy loud fan which would shift into VTEC mode in those situations). If it is working hard, you don't want it on your lap. Is there any decently fast laptop around where this isn't the case? That is the question.
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* A video I saw of the fans cycling on and off infinitely while the CPU was idling. (Completely unacceptable since the X200 is silent)
Not quite on idle. On idle (as I'm typing this), fans are off, there is no noise. In fact, fans have not been on in the past hour or two. Note: I am in England, it is late, central heating has gone off and ambient temp is around 18-19 degrees at a guess. I am in bed though, so that might add a degree or so. If I watch a DivX, the fans do that cycling thing, on-off-on-off. It sucks and makes a Mooing noise like a tiny cow is trapped in there. It makes me use my headphones. I expect a EFI Firmware update to fix this.
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* $200 more for 20GB up space plus a black case? (white is not an option)
Actually, white is an option :P White is cool, because it means I have an extra $200 in my pocket. Black looks marginally better, but I really didn't give it a second thought once I saw the price difference. It is just silly. Maybe I'm used to mine now, but I have zero black Macbook envy, I've grown to like the white.
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* 1 mouse button. Since I plan to dual-boot Windows, this will be a bit annoying.
I found an app which 'switches the mouse buttons when you press the Apple key', which means Apple-Click becomes right click. Works well. Can't remember exactly where it came from, I suppose I could find it again if someone wanted. Thats the best compromise I found.
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* I find the lack of a card slot slightly odd. A PCMCIA card is more likely to sit flush with the laptop's case when a future peripheral comes out. USB dongles sitcking out is stupid.
PCMCIA is so '90s. Who needs data cards when there is Bluetooth. Sure card readers are neater but use USB, they are only really plugged in for a few seconds at a time, so get over it. Unless you're after SCSI, or some custom niche funky peripheral, PCMCIA is so dead.
That lot should really go in the 'Macbook' thread, but meh, I've typed it now. Also to note, even though I was wary of the keyboard to start with - I love it now! It is great with a little bit of practice and feels so nice. I swear I can type faster than on the Powerbook, and it feels just as good. First impressions are not everything.
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#282269 - 31/05/2006 21:16
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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If someone has the time and money, I'd recommend picking up both a Mac and PC portable of equivalent configurations and price. Get both of the packages together before cracking open either one. If you didn't already start the comparison at the time of purchase (for example comparing Apple's store site to Dell's) then start at the box level. Look at the presentation of both boxes and now start opening them. Progress a bit at a time on each one so you get to the different stages of unpacking at about the same time. Next comes hooking them up and then booting for the first time. Seriously, you (or anyone) will find this procedure very illuminating, even without comparing usage beyond 60 seconds once booted. And it's only a precurser to continued usage. Mac OS 9 machines were simply not contenders for boxes running Windows 2000 or even 95/98 for that matter. I also couldn't get into the first release of Mac OS X. It was too much of a kludge. Things got better in 10.1 but still not quite there. As of 10.2 I could have used the OS as my primary. 10.3 just made things better and more recently 10.4 and revisions to all of Apple's bundled and commercial apps removed even more barriers. I've been running a Mac PowerBook as my primary machine since the end of the summer in 2004. Prior to that my primary machines had been WIndows-based (I moved from 95/98 to 2000 when it first came out and then to XP when it first came out). I've been using both Macs and WIndows heavily for over 15 years. For the 8 years prior to summer 1995 my primary machines had been various Amigas with much less frequency PC and Mac usage - though I did work on both and also supported others on both). I'm not a zealot, but Apple just been making a better product for the past few years. In fact I don't particularly even like the company itself and I really dislike Steve Jobs. Just don't tell Steve that.  Bruno
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#282270 - 31/05/2006 21:20
Re: MacBashing
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Just a FYI. On the Macbook you can also put two fingers down on the pad which produces a right click with when you press the trackpad button. This is newly built-in for the newest machines, previously it was supported using both iScroll2 and Sidetrack track-pad driver replacements/enhancements.
Bruno
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#282271 - 31/05/2006 21:48
Re: MacBashing
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I would assume the two-finger right click thing is something the driver handles and not something the hardware interprets? If so, what's the chances of that working while running Windows?
The fan cycling on and off is totally unacceptable and would drive me insane (I got rid of a Vaio R505 for the same reason). A Macbook can't even be considered until that's fixed. I will continue to endure with my beautiful, Samsung-designed, X200 that has giving me nothing but perfectly silent service for the past 3+ years.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#282272 - 01/06/2006 04:35
Re: MacBashing
[Re: robricc]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
I would assume the two-finger right click thing is something the driver handles and not something the hardware interprets? If so, what's the chances of that working while running Windows?
None. That stuff does not work in Windows unless you are running it virtualised in Parallels Workstation. If you reboot, the two-finger-click, iSight, remote and probably some other stuff doesn't work. In a few months or so I'd expect hacked/official drivers for everything. Then again if you plan on running Windows most of the time, I wouldn't buy a Macbook until this happens, of course.
Quote:
The fan cycling on and off is totally unacceptable and would drive me insane (I got rid of a Vaio R505 for the same reason). A Macbook can't even be considered until that's fixed. I will continue to endure with my beautiful, Samsung-designed, X200 that has giving me nothing but perfectly silent service for the past 3+ years.
Yeah, it is a real problem and they had better fix it soon. Even with the fan running constantly it is hardly what you call loud, but the mooing sound of it starting up when it is cycling is distracting. The X200 is cool, but you have to look at the difference between your ~800MHz PIII-M (I'm guessing) and 1.83-2.0GHz Core Duo badboy. The Macbook is proper fast so there is more heat to deal with.
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#282273 - 01/06/2006 05:33
Re: MacBashing
[Re: sein]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Blimey. I just thought the cartoon was slightly amusing. I didn't expect it to start an argument.
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Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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I feel your pain. I fowarded this onto the local mac zealot in the office because I thought it was funny. He got all offended and I had to explain that I just thought it was funny and wanted tweak him a bit, not that I really agreed that no one cares about macs. Sometimes a comic is just funny even if it isn't quite on the money. Obviously people care about macs (one way or the other) or this thread wouldn't still be raging.
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