#285234 - 08/08/2006 08:02
Free speech in the UK
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Has anybody heard about this: http://www.mumsnet.com/lw/state.htmlThe site I help run (www.downsizer.net) has lots of over exuberant posters that are sometimes critical of famous people, we try hard to stop stuff before it goes too far BUT how do you decide when it's crossed a line? We have no liability insurance at the moment, should we be looking at it, and does anyone here have experience of such?
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#285235 - 08/08/2006 08:30
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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#285236 - 08/08/2006 08:34
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tahir]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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I agree with mumsnet. Gina Fords books should be burnt!
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#285237 - 08/08/2006 08:42
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: furtive]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Quote:
I agree with mumsnet. Gina Fords books should be burnt!
It's OK to say that here, this is a non UK site (isn't it?)
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#285238 - 08/08/2006 09:25
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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_________________________
-- roger
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#285239 - 08/08/2006 09:34
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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#285240 - 08/08/2006 12:40
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Technology moves faster than the law, in our world things move by the second in their's by the century.
I would have thought Gina buggerlugs was on a sticky wicket in pursuing opinions on an openly available site, surely she would have to pursue the contributor of the individual post, irrespective of its nation of origin, but I doubt that British law has anything on the statute books, nor a precedent to deal with it. So, if she wishes to pursue the point, it will probably keep a great number of legal eagles happy at great expense and to no conclusion!
As to whether your site needs indemnity, I will raise the point with just such a group of legal eagles with whom I drink, and, in the unlikely event that they have a consensus, report back!
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#285241 - 08/08/2006 12:44
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
I would have thought Gina buggerlugs was on a sticky wicket in pursuing opinions on an openly available site, surely she would have to pursue the contributor of the individual post, irrespective of its nation of origin, but I doubt that British law has anything on the statute books, nor a precedent to deal with it. So, if she wishes to pursue the point, it will probably keep a great number of legal eagles happy at great expense and to no conclusion!
Unfortunately there are both laws and precedent in this area.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/03/26/demon_libel_loss_could_cripple/
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#285243 - 08/08/2006 12:54
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Quote:
As to whether your site needs indemnity, I will raise the point with just such a group of legal eagles with whom I drink, and, in the unlikely event that they have a consensus, report back!
Thatd be great Boxer. We're thinking of trying to get a forum coalition together to pay for some legal advice and then lobby whoever and wherever we can.
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#285244 - 08/08/2006 12:55
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Gina buggerlugs was on a sticky wicket
For a second, I thought I was the reading British vs. American thread.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#285245 - 08/08/2006 17:17
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Unfortunately there are both laws and precedent in this area.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/03/26/demon_libel_loss_could_cripple/
IMO under Godfrey v Demon the Mumsnet case would fail unless they can prove that the site owners were wilfully allowing the postings to stay there. If the threads were being deleted as they were notified or found then I think they would be ok. If the owners saw the posts and left them there then they could be in trouble. And all this assumes the posts are defamantory anyway.
My guess is that all the legal stuff has cost this Ford woman quite a bit of money and she doesn't want to be the one paying for it. If the posts are defamatory she should get a court order and sue the people who made them. I can't find the story, but a local MP sued somebody for posting some pretty defamatory claims on a Yahoo Group. edit: here They applied for court orders to get the woman's identity and she paid several thousand pounds in damages and costs.
I have seen a couple more related problems - one is a chap who runs a road safety/speed camera campaign. Various people have made "dodgy" comments about an employee of a Safety Camera Partnership. It came to a head when he faxed a complaint to the ISP on Police letterheaded paper and they yanked the site for a few hours. Somebody made an official complaint but they semeed to think it was ok for him to pursue a personal and civil matter using police resources...
edit: tahir - should should real Godfrey v Demon cover-to-cover. Virtually any UK libel action related to the internet would refer to it.
Gareth
Edited by g_attrill (08/08/2006 17:26)
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#285246 - 09/08/2006 07:27
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Thanks very much Gareth. I can understand the individual being pursued as in the Yahoo Groups case, but to sue a site seems incredible to me.
Will look through both of those.
Has anybody ever heard of liability insurance for websites?
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#285248 - 09/08/2006 09:11
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Mot exactly easy reading  Thanks again Gareth
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#285249 - 09/08/2006 09:39
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
but you can insure against anything really.
At a price!
I think that the general wisdom would be, and I spoke to a passing barrister this morning, who, predictably said: "Not my specilty", bur thought that the general rule of: take it off the site if somebody complains, as a precaution, whether you think that they are right or wrong, covers.
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#285250 - 09/08/2006 09:52
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: boxer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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Quote:
take it off the site if somebody complains, as a precaution, whether you think that they are right or wrong, covers.
We do that already, we encourage robust debate but not personal attacks, whether against celebs or not.
From the sound of it they've got an impossible task "10,000 posts daily"
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#285251 - 09/08/2006 12:26
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tahir]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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#285252 - 09/08/2006 12:38
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1913
Loc: London
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#285253 - 09/08/2006 21:11
Re: Free speech in the UK
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
Thanks very much Gareth. I can understand the individual being pursued as in the Yahoo Groups case, but to sue a site seems incredible to me.
Agreed.
Next time someone defames me in the newspaper, I am not only going to sue the publisher, but I am going to sue the miner who dug the ore to make the axe blade that cut down the tree to make the paper that the newspaper was printed on.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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