#288301 - 18/10/2006 05:46
HDTV gush
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Man, HDTV is changing me. I have such a hard time watching anything in SD - I cringe at the sight of Survivor and The Daily Show. WHY wouldn't those two make the leap? They are hugely profitable shows - get on board!
Oh, and Discovery Atlas China was amazing, Brazil, not as good (IMHO).
Also, I gotta say... DVD looks pretty anemic these days also. Can't wait for Microsoft's $200 HD-DVD drive...
- Jon
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#288302 - 18/10/2006 09:20
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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I've never seen a reality show in HD. I always assumed it had something to do with the number of cameras required to catch all the action (ie...Big Brother with 46 cameras this last season). It's gotta be expensive to upgrade all that equipment to HD. Not to mention that they may not make HD cameras small enough to go some of the places they need to go.
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~ John
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#288303 - 18/10/2006 10:28
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Man, HDTV is changing me. I have such a hard time watching anything in SD - I cringe at the sight of Survivor and The Daily Show. WHY wouldn't those two make the leap? They are hugely profitable shows - get on board!
Well, the Daily Show would need for Comedy Central to have an HD channel, so that's a little harder. I'm surprised, though, because I assumed Survivor was in HD. That's pretty pathetic, considering the scenery in the places they go to.
Quote:
Also, I gotta say... DVD looks pretty anemic these days also. Can't wait for Microsoft's $200 HD-DVD drive...
Do you have an upscaling DVD player? That'll get you close. I assume you're talking about the HD-DVD drive for the XBox. I also assume that you have a 360 or a computer hooked up to your TV. Otherwise I think you'll be out of luck there.
These days I don't see myself ever getting a hi-def DVD player. I'll be fine with regular DVDs until the next technology comes along. This generation got screwed up.
But in regards to your overall message, I'm also a huge fan of HD. I'll watch grass grow. During the Olympics on the HD channel, they had this clip they'd show between every competition. It was the same clip, but I'd watch it every time because it looked so good.
_________________________
Matt
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#288304 - 18/10/2006 10:31
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
I've never seen a reality show in HD. I always assumed it had something to do with the number of cameras required to catch all the action (ie...Big Brother with 46 cameras this last season). It's gotta be expensive to upgrade all that equipment to HD. Not to mention that they may not make HD cameras small enough to go some of the places they need to go.
I don't know what the broadcast industry is like in the US, but here in the UK all the kit is hired in for the show. I assume they either can't find a facilities company that has any availble or they've made a concious descision not to go HD.
Sony are now making HD block cameras which are very small but obviously not small enough. One issue with miniaturisation will be the optics which may be the sticking point.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#288305 - 18/10/2006 11:41
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: andym]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Big Brother (UK) has only been broadcasting in 16:9 for the last series, possibly the one before too, presumably because it was tricky/expensive to get all the correct equipment for the number of cameras they used.
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#288306 - 18/10/2006 11:51
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
I cringe at the sight of Survivor and The Daily Show. WHY wouldn't those two make the leap? They are hugely profitable shows - get on board!
I get Survivor in HD, but not 16:9. That bugs me so much. The same with Amazing Race. Why bother to go HD when the aspect ratio is still 4:3? Shows that I do get in widescreen HD: Heroes, My Name Is Earl, The Office. I can't wait for 24 this Jan.
Ditto about the upconverting DVD player, go buy one now. It makes a HUGE difference. I don't feel much like re-buying my DVD collection anyway.
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#288307 - 18/10/2006 12:10
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Big Brother (UK) has only been broadcasting in 16:9 for the last series, possibly the one before too, presumably because it was tricky/expensive to get all the correct equipment for the number of cameras they used.
I would imagine Channel 4 changed its technical criteria so now all new programmes commissioned must be 16:9 which is probably what swung it. From personal experience good 4:3 kit is considerably cheaper to hire than its 16:9 counterparts, mostly because nobody wants it.
Interesting to note that Sky's acceptance criteria means that all new programming must be delivered in HD. As a result sale and hire of Sony Z1's have gone through the roof because small production companies can't afford full-size HD capable cameras. I recently worked a couple of days on the Manchester heat of 'The Big Idea' made by a production company for Sky One. They used 6 Z1's, something that would've been unheard of five years ago.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#288308 - 18/10/2006 13:34
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: cushman]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
(snip)Ditto about the upconverting DVD player, go buy one now. It makes a HUGE difference. I don't feel much like re-buying my DVD collection anyway.
Hm. I've been using my XBox 360 to watch DVDs lately. Anyone know if it upconverts? If not, can I get a few recommendations?
BTW, have you guys seen "The Island" yet? That movie rocks - they have it on HBO HD these days. If you haven't seen it, then do.
- Thanx
- Jon
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#288309 - 18/10/2006 13:58
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ah, so you do have a 360. Then the drive is a good deal for you! Too bad they seem so opposed to HDMI.
I liked the Island. It was pretty good (not great). Steve Buschemi was the best part of it, though, and he wasn't in it long.
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Matt
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#288310 - 18/10/2006 14:15
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: Dignan]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
(snip)Too bad they seem so opposed to HDMI.
Yeah, I still don't know what to believe on that. There are so many different reports - they have the capability to release an adaptor for HDMI, they are going to release a new 360, they don't need HDMI to support 1080p, etc.
I think that 1080i will look great for HD-DVD with or without 1080p. I'm not convinced that 1080p is really that much better... I have yet to see proof... (a real world test with the same source material).
- Jon
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#288311 - 18/10/2006 14:28
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Quote:
(snip)Ditto about the upconverting DVD player, go buy one now. It makes a HUGE difference. I don't feel much like re-buying my DVD collection anyway.
Hm. I've been using my XBox 360 to watch DVDs lately. Anyone know if it upconverts? If not, can I get a few recommendations?
I have this Samsung upconverting DVD Recorder and it works pretty well for me. Has the firewire in on the front panel (hidden), etc. It was around $150 at Best Buy.
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#288312 - 18/10/2006 14:51
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I have such a hard time watching anything in SD - I cringe at the sight of Survivor and The Daily Show.
You know, the funny thing is, SD didn't used to look that bad.
Once upon a time, SD shows came over analog cable TV or over the air, or over analog satellite. And the picture quality was pretty decent. Even when DirecTV first started broadcasting, the picture quality was great. Very sharp and crisp.
Then we went to digital cable and digital satellite, and people like Hughes discovered that you could cram a billion more channels onto the same carrier simply by overcompressing the existing channels. Now, every SD channel looks like shit. Blurry and pixellated from overcompression.
Even local TV stations who broadcast over-the-air shows are now getting those shows from their network parents via a compressed link of some kind, so their source material is visibly data-compressed.
This sucks. Of course, at first, no one noticed because everyone was watching this stuff on tiny little TV sets. Now that we're all starting to buy big screen HDTVs, we're starting to notice how much it sucks.
I wish that people would have had HDTV and big-screen television sets *BEFORE* the invention of digital sattelite. That way, when DirecTV got crappy looking, more people would have noticed and complained.
I wonder if there will be a backlash, or if we'll just eventually go all-HD for everything and then DirecTV can slowly make THAT look crappy.
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#288313 - 18/10/2006 14:52
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I have an LG player (model DVD-511A) that I liked so much I bought a second one for another room in the house. It upconverts and plays DivX files (as well as XviD files and it decodes AC3 audio tracks).
_________________________
Matt
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#288315 - 18/10/2006 15:03
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: Dignan]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
I have an LG player (model DVD-511A) that I liked so much I bought a second one for another room in the house. It upconverts and plays DivX files (as well as XviD files and it decodes AC3 audio tracks).
Is this it? http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5618341-1.html
- Jon
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#288316 - 18/10/2006 15:19
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
I have an LG player (model DVD-511A) that I liked so much I bought a second one for another room in the house. It upconverts and plays DivX files (as well as XviD files and it decodes AC3 audio tracks).
Is this it? http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5618341-1.html
Oops! yeah, I got the model number wrong. Yeah, it's that one, the LDA511.
I own a networkable DVD player that can play the same types of files, but the problem with it is that it's soooo sloooooow. And the menus are terrible. The LG doesn't have the prettiest menus in the world, but it's very basic and I like that. But what really impresses me is that it's fast. Navigating through folders on a disc is quick, it'll start playing files immediately, and the fast forward and rewind functions on video files works perfectly, even at 128x! I have no complaints about the player, but apparently others have had problems with those double-sided DVDs. I haven't tried any yet.
_________________________
Matt
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#288317 - 18/10/2006 15:34
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
I wonder if there will be a backlash, or if we'll just eventually go all-HD for everything and then DirecTV can slowly make THAT look crappy.
For what's it's worth, the HD MPEG4 locals in NY look superior to the HD MPEG2 locals in NY. The MPEG4 locals even look better than the the national HD MPEG2 channels (Discovery, HDNet, etc.). I don't think it's DirecTV's intent to give you crappy picture, it's just a lack of bandwidth at the moment.
I don't know if you notice, but on Sundays during football season, DirecTV has to stop broadcasting TNT HD and channel 101 in HD to make room for NFL Sunday Ticket. I don't think anything else could make it more clear that this is a bandwidth issue.
Once they have a solid and reliable HD DVR for recording HD MPEG4, I think the HD MPEG2 locals for NY and LA should be shut off. It doesn't make sense to transmit those 8 channels when they're available in MPEG4. Of course, at that point, DirecTV will have to "upgrade" HR10-250 users to the HR20 and then do 5-LNB installs. I'm sure that's going to cost DirecTV a pretty penny.
DirecTV should also stop adding jesus and home shopping channels to the 101º (main) satellites. If someone really needs all those church channels, they should just get Sky Angel.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#288318 - 18/10/2006 15:55
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
it's just a lack of bandwidth at the moment.
...DirecTV has to stop broadcasting TNT HD and channel 101 in HD...
See, you've proved my point. It's not a bandwidth issue, it's a WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO USE THE BANDWIDTH FOR issue.
They could reduce the number of channels that they broadcast, cut out all the home shopping networks, and the overstacked starting-every-half-hour pay per view channels, and a bunch of other crap that's there merely to pad their channel lineup, and they'd be able to increase the available bandwidth on the existing channels.
Unfortunately, people still vote with their pocketbooks, and they put up the channels that get them the subscriptions. I personally think it's insane that people would pay that much money for NFL Sunday Ticket, just to get more crappy-looking overcompressed football games than they could possibly ever watch. Maybe it's only the sports bars buying that package, I dunno. And the shopping networks pay THEM to carry the channels, so that'll never go away. Sigh. It sucks. Once upon a time, DirecTV was cool and had high quality and didn't over-use their existing bandwidth. And that was with just one bird! Now we've got what, three birds, and they all suck? If only we could return to the olden days...
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#288319 - 18/10/2006 16:07
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I've been reading about how DTV is not even broadcasting full HD anymore (they call it HD-Lite on AVS Forums)... See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704350 and http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/20/directv-gets-whats-comin-to-them/ - I still think that HD on DTV looks great, but not what it could be, apparantly.
Those screen shots they chose were bad examples, because the differences are so subtle. I could have found better examples. For instance, the biggest places I see compression problems are on scene transitions without keyframes. They could have chosen to do a framegrab right after a scene cut and it would have been a bunch of huge MPEG squares instead of a picture.
Most of the issues I see with data compression are best shown in motion, not in still frames. Like, there's something I've been seeing more and more lately with talking-head interviews. You know how, as someone talks, their head moves in subtle ways, even if they're trying to hold still for the camera? Well, what happens with overcompression is that the facial features move a lot, so they get updated, but the head's outline doesn't move much, so it doesn't get updated and just sits there frozen. So you get this not-subtle-at-all sensation that their face is sliding around in relation to their skull, as if their head is made of jell-o. Very very irritating, and it's one of the results of overcompression.
GOD I HATE VIDEO COMPRESSION. ARGH.
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#288320 - 18/10/2006 16:20
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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TNT HD came to DirecTV in MPEG2 after MPEG4 HD channels were rolling out. To me, this speakes volumes of DirecTVs desire to cater to their customers. They could either make it an MPEG4 channel 24/7 that few could see, or MPEG2 that goes dark on Sundays until 5PM for half the year.
Although the programming on channel 101 is aimed at teeny boppers (I think), it is stuff that's produced exclusively for DirecTV (for the most part). The addition of this channel (and CD USA in HD) is welcome in my book.
PPV is a huge bandwidth hog, but I'm sure it's worth it to them. The attached slide from a DirecTV investor day in February should demonstrate that DirecTV is interested in taking the PPV burden off their satellites. I wasn't at this event, nor am I an investor in DirecTV, but that's how I read it.
I don't understand the NFL Sunday Ticket thing either, but my father seems to like it. He pays hundreds of dollars a year for that package and I'm sure DirecTV is happy to take that money vs. no extra income for broadcasting TNT HD.
Attachments
289043-FINALSlidesInvestorDay.jpg (114 downloads)
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#288321 - 18/10/2006 17:23
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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There was a backlash by some people that created a network called Voom. And not enough HDTV owners cared, and thus it died. The SD channel quality on Voom reminded me of how crappy Dish and DirectTV were, and were a main reason I didn't go back.
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#288322 - 18/10/2006 17:32
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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High-end customers (Voom's target audience) demand an integrated PVR. Lack of PVR and locals are what kept me away.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#288323 - 18/10/2006 17:53
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
(snip)Ditto about the upconverting DVD player, go buy one now. It makes a HUGE difference. I don't feel much like re-buying my DVD collection anyway.
Hm. I've been using my XBox 360 to watch DVDs lately. Anyone know if it upconverts? If not, can I get a few recommendations?
BTW, have you guys seen "The Island" yet? That movie rocks - they have it on HBO HD these days. If you haven't seen it, then do.
- Thanx
- Jon
I use Zoomplayer with the NVidia DVD playback codec. Using this combo I have found that good DVDs are very close to the quality of HBOHD on the 110" screen.
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Chad
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#288324 - 19/10/2006 14:53
Re: HDTV gush
[Re: Attack]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Thanks for the help all. I decided to buy this one yesterday http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h.html The company that makes it is based in the South Bay, so it was only a 30 minute drive to go pick it up. The reviews on AVSForum and on http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/secrets-best-of-2005-awards-12-2005.html were generally very good. They gave me a Faroudja demo DVD and showed me why their DCDi based player was better than a lot of other players. I tried it on my XBox, and man, they were right. The quality is SO much better. The artifacts and jaggies disappear on the Oppo. Of course, that DVD is made to showcase the things that the Faroudja does best... On the whole, this player is really amazing. It's almost as good as watching HD content vs. SD. It feels funny to be buying a new 480i DVD player when the HD-DVD drive is less than a month away, but I figure that I'll be watching a lot of 480i DVDs in the next few years, so it isn't a waste of money... - Jon P.S. Anyone wanna buy this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1
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