#294685 - 08/03/2007 20:06
OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Hi all- I'm getting tired of all the blue screens that my old HP gives me- it's running WinME and was new just before XP came out. I recently upgraded my storage drive from a flakey 80GB to a new 300GB. Unfortunately, WinME can only see 137GB of the new drive. I was thinking that now is the time to leave ME behind and go through the effort of setting up a new OS. My original plan was to load Win2k onto the new drive as master and rebuild my current status on top of that with my old 40GB master now as slave (or set aside for reference). I thought maybe it would be fun to set up the system as dual boot with Ubuntu. That way I could have fun and play and learn in two worlds. Reason for Win2k over XP is that I have a copy of 2k and I'm cheap.  Would I be correct in assuming the 300GB drive would be partitioned for the two OSes? What are the options for bootloaders? Will I be able to access files from one OS's partition with the other? Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated!
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#294686 - 08/03/2007 20:30
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Start here: Ubuntu Wiki: WindowsDualBootBasically, if you're starting from scratch, you'll tell whichever OS you install first to not use the whole drive. There are a number of bootloaders, from LILO to GRUB to GAG to Windows' own NTLDR. I'd just go with whatever the Linux install uses by default. You will certainly be able to read files from the other OS. Writing might not be the best idea. Both ways, you'd be depending on utilities not as well vetted as the native ones and you could potentially end up corrupting a filesystem. The safest bet, if you need a filesystem both OSes have RW support for, is to create a small FAT partition. Or use a USB key. But you should have no problems reading the other OS's filesystems.
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Bitt Faulk
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#294687 - 08/03/2007 20:41
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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It has been a while since I used Win2k, but I seem to remember that it can't see above 137GB during the setup process either. If I remember rightly 137GB+ support was introduced in one of the service packs. Edit: All the gory details here http://www.48bitlba.com/win2k.htm
Edited by andy (08/03/2007 20:43)
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#294688 - 08/03/2007 22:00
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
If I remember rightly 137GB+ support was introduced in one of the service packs.
Thanks for the link-
I've read previously that large drives are supported after SP3.
edit:
That link has some great info and tools that I'll have to play with tonight. I'm not sure exactly what is on my Win2k install CD, other than the 'Windows 2000 Pro' scrawled with a marker.
I may have to make a small partition on the drive for the Windows install, then expand it after the service packs are in place.
Edited by Robotic (08/03/2007 22:16)
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#294689 - 08/03/2007 22:24
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
Start here: Ubuntu Wiki: WindowsDualBoot
Basically, if you're starting from scratch, you'll tell whichever OS you install first to not use the whole drive.
Thanks, Bitt-
I wonder which would be easier to install first- Ubuntu or the Win2k, given that I may have to do some jumping through hoops with the Windows to get it to see the whole drive.
I'm assuming I have to make Windows able to see the whole drive before I can tell it which area to install onto. My thinking is if Windows can't see the whole drive, then how will it be able to see the partition that another tool created for it.
At what point does the boot loader come into play? After the first install? After the second? Is it an automatic thing that comes in with the Linux install and thereafter 'sees' two OS's and just asks which to use?
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#294690 - 08/03/2007 22:25
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
If I remember rightly 137GB+ support was introduced in one of the service packs.
Thanks for the link-
I've read previously that large drives are supported after SP3.
edit:
That link has some great info and tools that I'll have to play with tonight. I'm not sure exactly what is on my Win2k install CD, other than the 'Windows 2000 Pro' scrawled with a marker.
I may have to make a small partition on the drive for the Windows install, then expand it after the service packs are in place.
Or you can use Nlite to create an install CD with the latest service pack and drivers.
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Chad
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#294691 - 08/03/2007 22:31
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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My first instinct is to install Windows first, due to boot loader issues, but Linux has an issue where its boot partition needs to be within the first 1024 tracks on the disk, so it may make sense to install Linux first, so you can get that early partition.
Hmm, I think I'd probably install Linux first, making sure to install your boot loader on a partition, not the MBR, and leaving enough space free for a Windows install. Then install Windows in the free space, which will steal the boot partition from your Linux installation. Then boot back into Linux with your install CD, run fdisk and mark the Linux partition as the boot partition. Then you'll have to modify your boot loader to recognize the Windows install.
None of it is very trivial. It would be if Windows gave you utilities to really do what you want during installation and/or didn't try to take over your computer.
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Bitt Faulk
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#294692 - 08/03/2007 22:42
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I wonder which would be easier to install first- Ubuntu or the Win2k
Always Windows before anything else, simply because Windows will very likely blow away any other OS or bootloader. The other OSs tend to be more cooperative with existing installs.
Cheers
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#294693 - 08/03/2007 22:45
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Mark, how you make sure, then, that Linux gets a boot partition under the 1024 track mark?
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Bitt Faulk
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#294694 - 08/03/2007 23:08
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Mark, how you make sure, then, that Linux gets a boot partition under the 1024 track mark?
It generally doesn't need one -- the bootloaders got updated to deal with that (was it really 1024.. my memory is fuzzy) ages ago.
But it probably still needs something within the first 137G (128GB), so your suggestions (including partitioning) are all very good on that front.
Cheers
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#294695 - 08/03/2007 23:15
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I thought it was also an issue of the kernel needing to initially access the disk via BIOS calls.
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Bitt Faulk
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#294696 - 08/03/2007 23:54
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I thought it was also an issue of the kernel needing to initially access the disk via BIOS calls.
Yup, that's what it was, long long ago. Bootloader, not kernel, though.
-ml
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#294697 - 09/03/2007 12:35
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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addict
Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
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I am currently using a laptop that is set up with XP and Ubuntu in dual boot. I have a 30 GB partion first for xp, then a 20GB ext3 partition for Ubuntu, and then a 20GB swap partition also for Ubuntu. I loaded XP first and then used GRUB in Ubuntu as the dual boot loader. It all went without a hitch. I currently use NTFS3g to read and write to my NTFS partition while in Linux. It works great. Ubuntu is a bit finicky about graphics cards. It would not load out of the box on to two of my desktops. One of them has a Nvidia 8800 card and the other has an ATI 9200 graphics card. I did the research on the issue with the Nvidia card and found the correct drivers and instructions for correcting the problem, so it’s not impossible to fix, even for a Linux beginner.
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#294698 - 17/03/2007 20:02
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Thanks for all the replies!
I tried playing with this a little last night, but for some reason I couldn't boot from my CD drive. Now I can't read anything from it at any time, so I've either screwed up a driver or the optics are dirty. I'll have to clean it out and try again later.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#294699 - 20/03/2007 20:55
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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I found the problem with my all-in-one optical disk drive- IT SUCKS.Any recommendations on a replacement?
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#294700 - 20/03/2007 21:14
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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I'm a big fan of the Pioneer 111D/112D/etc.. line. Very fast ripping and burning.
And cheap, too!
Cheers
Edited by mlord (20/03/2007 21:14)
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#294701 - 20/03/2007 23:44
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Thanks, Mark! Indeed they are cheap- at newegg they're $30-$35, but sadly out of stock. I couldn't find them at Fry's Outpost or Geek.com, though. I'll drop by the Fry's store on my way home tonight and see what's on the shelf there.
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10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#294702 - 21/03/2007 06:18
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Just picked up the Pioneer DVR-A11XLA a couple of months ago and very happy with it (same as the 111D but does DVD-RAM too). I had to search hard for it though as it is discontinued. Edit: It looks like I missed out - there is a newer model (DVR-A12) readily available here. Oh well, at least I have been able to do backups for the last couple of months.
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Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#294703 - 21/03/2007 06:43
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: pedrohoon]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/08/2002
Posts: 333
Loc: The Pilbara, Western Australia
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Also a SATA version available.
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Peter.
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
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#294704 - 27/03/2007 14:37
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - now optical combo drives
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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The ETA for the Pioneers to be back in stock at NewEgg has come and gone and still they are out of stock. Perusing NewEgg for other options has me looking at this Asus drive.The reviews seem good, but I have nothing else to go on. I'd prefer to steer clear of LG and Lite-On. I'd get a Pioneer (even without lightscribe) based on the comments of members here, but I really don't want to go over $50 and availability otherwise isn't happening. In brief- anyone have any *bad* experiences with Asus? Also, I don't *need* lightscribe or the 'retail' package, but the difference in price is small and I'm not sure what options I'd have for LS software otherwise. Ideas? edit: LightScribe.com has some freeware for labelling, so an OEM drive is an option. The Nero that comes with the above retail drive doesn't thrill me anyway. edit2: I've just ordered this Samsung. Hope it works better than the Lite-On. Thanks again to Mark for the recommendation of the Pioneer. I'm anxious to get back on track with the *real* project at hand!
Edited by Robotic (27/03/2007 22:06)
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#294705 - 27/03/2007 23:53
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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stranger
Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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Try switching the jumper on the CD-ROM drive master\slave. Your new hard drive might have a jumper for cable select or master\slave that is interfering with the CD drive. I've had a few that required having the CD drive set to slave before it would boot.
I always thought ME was the worst OS MS released. You must have a great deal of patience. Love Win2k - I think it's the best release from MS.
Partition your drives. There's no need to have one 300GB blob.
Vmware now has a free copy. I've been running Ubuntu as a virtual machine on an XP laptop. It also has the cool feature of being able to save the state of the OS. That might be a fun way to experiment.
Cheers!
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#294706 - 28/03/2007 01:14
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: MarkM]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
Try switching the jumper on the CD-ROM drive master\slave. Your new hard drive might have a jumper for cable select or master\slave that is interfering with the CD drive. I've had a few that required having the CD drive set to slave before it would boot.
I wondered about that, but the drive failed to read normal CDs even under WinME and had trouble with DVDs, too. This is in contrast to normal operation that I'm used to seeing of the drive, so I thought the whole master/slave/cable-select issue was moot.
Quote:
I always thought ME was the worst OS MS released. You must have a great deal of patience. Love Win2k - I think it's the best release from MS.
I've been much too patient with ME. I've run Win2k at work for four years and have never had a problem. Mistake Edition, indeed.
Quote:
Partition your drives. There's no need to have one 300GB blob.
It's in the plan... sort of. The idea is to partition off about 50GB for Ubuntu to play with and the rest for MicroSoft. Should I partition up the MS portion into smaller bits? I've never done that before and I don't know what the pros and cons would be.
Quote:
Vmware now has a free copy. I've been running Ubuntu as a virtual machine on an XP laptop. It also has the cool feature of being able to save the state of the OS. That might be a fun way to experiment.
Cheers!
I'll look into the VMware- that sounds interesting! My brother was looking at working for them recently, but he's just announced he's back at Sun again.
Thanks for the reply-
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#294707 - 28/03/2007 05:35
Re: OS upgrade and dual boot - comments and suggestions, please
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Should I partition up the MS portion into smaller bits?
No.
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