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#301768 - 28/08/2007 08:09 HD Camcorders
CrackersMcCheese pooh-bah Registered: 14/01/2002 Posts: 2489	Its about time I got a camcorder and I suppose it should be a high def one. Does anyone have any experience with these? Or any recommendations? The ones I'm looking at are Sony ones with the AVCHD as opposed to HDV. Should there be any differences between recording onto tape or hard disk other than shock protection being an issue on hard disks?
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#301769 - 28/08/2007 10:30 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
Cris pooh-bah Registered: 06/02/2002 Posts: 1904 Loc: Leeds, UK	I've been interested in these myself recently, although I won't be buying one! (cost!) I think the Panasonic HDC-SD5EG looks interesting, it records to SD (I think they do a HD or CD version too). I think it is based on similar technology as the Sony you may have been looking at. The current problem may be software support for AVCHD, I know the new version of iMovie supports it and a couple of the PC apps, but stuff like Premiere doesn't currently work, I think Adobe say they plan support. I think this technology will kiss goodbye to good old miniDV, esp. as the price of SD cards fall. I would be very interested what you think if you go an try out a few! Cheers Cris.
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#301770 - 28/08/2007 11:05 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
peter carpal tunnel Registered: 13/07/2000 Posts: 4180 Loc: Cambridge, England	Quote: Should there be any differences between recording onto tape or hard disk other than shock protection being an issue on hard disks? My brother's got one of the Sony hard-disk ones: he got it past the missus by claiming it was for my niece's first steps. He uses it loads, and the only problem with it I've heard him mention is the archival problem of the ever-mounting hundreds of Gbytes of baby footage he's shot on it. I guess the other problem, as one of the Wikipedia pages mentions, is that when your 60Gb or whatever is full, which doesn't take all that long, that's it until you can get it to a PC or laptop. You can't just whack another tape in like you can with the old-school ones. Peter
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#301771 - 28/08/2007 11:09 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: Cris]
CrackersMcCheese pooh-bah Registered: 14/01/2002 Posts: 2489	Yes I like the look of that Panasonic and also the Canon HG10. I'm still unsure as to how real the HD is - all the ones on the market still compress the data a great deal which I suppose they have to otherwise you'd only get 4 minutes on a large drive. But does this mean that you lose data if you re-edit the video? Or can you get lossless editing?
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#301772 - 28/08/2007 15:06 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
Dignan carpal tunnel Registered: 08/03/2000 Posts: 12338 Loc: Sterling, VA	I think as long as your editing program supports AVCHD, you don't lose any more quality (past the initial compression). Of course, this assumes you have a Hi-Def DVD player. I'll have to post the HD cam that my friend just bought. It's pretty incredible. _________________________ Matt
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#301773 - 28/08/2007 19:00 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
andym carpal tunnel Registered: 17/01/2002 Posts: 3996 Loc: Manchester UK	We've got a bunch of Sony HVR-Z1E's which are pretty good (although still beaten by our old DSR-390's at SD). However the cheapest you're likely to find one is about 2k. It does have a little brother, the HVR-A1E which can be had for £1200. If you're look for something cheaper then the HDR-HC5 looks pretty good. I wouldn't bother with any other manufacturers offerings. I would stick with HDV over anything else, and I'd stick with tape. Disc systems are good for broadcasters and news crews, but archiving is much easier when you shoot on tape. _________________________ Cheers, Andy M
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#301774 - 28/08/2007 20:45 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: andym]
CrackersMcCheese pooh-bah Registered: 14/01/2002 Posts: 2489	Why do you say HDV over AVCHD Andy? I know the bitrate is higher with HDV, but I thought the newer codec was more efficient?
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#301775 - 28/08/2007 21:13 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: andym]
drakino carpal tunnel Registered: 08/06/1999 Posts: 7868	Quote: Disc systems are good for broadcasters and news crews, but archiving is much easier when you shoot on tape. Why would archiving via tape be easier for a home camcorder? I'd imagine having a large hard drive and just being able to copy the raw files around is quicker and easier for archival then having to go through the tape -> file process via firewire/usb. And for Phil: I remember episode 54 of MacBreak weekly was discussing a lot about the AVCHD camcorders, though I have to admit I wasn't paying much attention to it at the time. Might be worth a listen though. http://www.twit.tv/mbw54
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#301776 - 28/08/2007 21:58 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: drakino]
andym carpal tunnel Registered: 17/01/2002 Posts: 3996 Loc: Manchester UK	Quote: Why would archiving via tape be easier for a home camcorder? I'd imagine having a large hard drive and just being able to copy the raw files around is quicker and easier for archival then having to go through the tape -> file process via firewire/usb. A waste of HD space for one, why have all your material spinning on a platter somewhere when it could be in a little box on a shelf. What's the point of having stored on line like that? Unless you're constantly referring to it on a regular basis. Plus, what are you going to back your HD onto if it fails? We still archive onto tape at work as it's the most stable long term storage system available. We only keep a weeks worth of material spinning at a time, after that it's either deleted or printed to tape. _________________________ Cheers, Andy M
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#301777 - 28/08/2007 22:08 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
andym carpal tunnel Registered: 17/01/2002 Posts: 3996 Loc: Manchester UK	Quote: Why do you say HDV over AVCHD Andy? I know the bitrate is higher with HDV, but I thought the newer codec was more efficient? I suppose it depends upon what you're after. There's currently more support for HDV. It also appears that AVCHD is a non-linear format so the really nice camcorders don't support it. _________________________ Cheers, Andy M
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#301778 - 29/08/2007 10:47 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: andym]
Dignan carpal tunnel Registered: 08/03/2000 Posts: 12338 Loc: Sterling, VA	Quote: Quote: Why would archiving via tape be easier for a home camcorder? I'd imagine having a large hard drive and just being able to copy the raw files around is quicker and easier for archival then having to go through the tape -> file process via firewire/usb. A waste of HD space for one, why have all your material spinning on a platter somewhere when it could be in a little box on a shelf. What's keeping you from putting the hard drive in a little box on a shelf? That's exactly what my backup plans are. I now have digital forms of all my wedding and honeymoon photos and videos. I plan on getting a couple 120GB drives and storing one drive at home and another at work. _________________________ Matt
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#301779 - 29/08/2007 15:58 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: Dignan]
andym carpal tunnel Registered: 17/01/2002 Posts: 3996 Loc: Manchester UK	Quote: Quote: Quote: Why would archiving via tape be easier for a home camcorder? I'd imagine having a large hard drive and just being able to copy the raw files around is quicker and easier for archival then having to go through the tape -> file process via firewire/usb. A waste of HD space for one, why have all your material spinning on a platter somewhere when it could be in a little box on a shelf. What's keeping you from putting the hard drive in a little box on a shelf? That's exactly what my backup plans are. I now have digital forms of all my wedding and honeymoon photos and videos. I plan on getting a couple 120GB drives and storing one drive at home and another at work. I wouldn't feel comfortable using off the shelf IDE/SATA discs for long term storage. I have MiniDV and DVCAM tapes that are nearly 10 years old that are still perfectly readable and showing no signs of degradation. I can't say the same about HD's from that period. Given the amount of footage your average consumer generates I see little reason to go tapeless. Why go to all the hassle of shovelling files from HD to HD when you can simply eject the tape and put it on the shelf to archive it. Given the cost of tapes versus the cost of HD's I see little point. We are looking at going tapeless at work, we are capturing approx 6 to 8 hours of raw footage a day and turning round material for 3 live news programmes in addition to all our other programming. Our main concern is the long term storage of what's been shot, the current answer? You've guessed it, tape. _________________________ Cheers, Andy M
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#301780 - 24/10/2007 19:12 Re: HD Camcorders [Re: Cris]
Cris pooh-bah Registered: 06/02/2002 Posts: 1904 Loc: Leeds, UK	After much messing about (amazon lost the first one, so I ended up buying from a local supplier) I have got my hands on a Panasonic HDC-SD1. I know the SD5 is "Full HD" but I was able to get a much better deal on the SD1 and it has some nice features missing in the newer model. Only had it a few hours but initial impressions are good, it's a keeper! iMovie '08 is brilliant! I have done editing a a few different packages (Final Cut HD, Premiere & others) but this really fits the bill for what I want to do now. I was worried about AVCHD dragging my machine to a stand still, but it copes just fine, rendering previews on the fly fullscreen etc... I am yet to try it in any real conditions, but so far I think the format is a winner for home users wanting to make quick movies. Cheers Cris.
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