I'm debating between VBR and CBR for encoding my CDs, and I would like get general feedback from "those in know" as to how various devices, including the Rio Car, handle VBR files, specifically with regard to timestamps and fast-forwarding.

I would like to use VBR, but I understand that a lot of decoders have issues fast-forwarding or providing a correct timestamp for VBR MP3 files. Windows Media Player 7.x exhibits timestamp problems, for example, while WinAMP does not. Additionally, my Compaq iPaq PA-1 personal audio player displays an incorrect timestamp and cannot accurately fast-forward/rewind VBR files.

I was pleased to see that the Rio Car seems to be OK with VBR files. The only issue I noticed with the 2.0b3 software was a short popping sound after rewinding through a VBR file for a few seconds. The popping sound was only evident when rewinding through VBR; fast-forwarding VBR and rewinding through CBR were OK. VBR time-stamps appeared to be as accurate as CBR time-stamps. The popping sound is hardly an issue to me.

I would like to encode my CDs once, and use the same MP3 files for the Rio Car, PC, portable MP3 player, and any future devices that support MP3 (i.e., home audio system MP3 player). However, if VBR usually has problems on these devices, even if it's "just" timestamp and fast-forward/rewind issues, then I would probably prefer to go with CBR.

How are VBR files handled by various portable audio devices? As I said, my iPaq PA-1 will play them, but displays the wrong timestamp and cannot accurately fast-forward through the files. What about the Rio Receiver? Does it handle VBR well? Rio portable audio players like the Volt or Rio 800?

If the general concensus is that VBR support is inconsistent across various products, then I will probably have to go with CBR. Thanks in advance for your advice.

Saying that VBR support is inconsistent across various players would be accurate.

However, I would consider your empeg to be the primary factor in deciding on encoding methods. If the empeg supports it, I'd say use it.

If you have another portable which plays VBR fine and only has problems rewinding, I wouldn't consider that a major issue.

In the end, it's going to be your call.

I have about 15 Gb of MP3s in my collection about now. I have experimented with all methods of encoding and through long trial and error, I found that VBR is my format of choice. I don't mind the timestamp errors as I rarely use fast foward. My main concern was getting the highest sound quality and still have relativley average file sizes. That being said, I have used 100% VBR on the majority of my collection and I am very satified with the results. The typical file size is a little bigger than average (around 5-7 Mb) however the sound is indistinguishable from the source (in my ears anyway). I found that CBR files were too big for my taste. Hope this helps. I do agree with Tony above in that the Empeg player was my main reason for trying to get that perfect in-car sound quality. John

Wrong timestamps don't bother me, rather the quality that comes thru is better to me. Something about forcing the encoder to set a certain bitrate ala CBR on something that's not (music) doesn't sound right unless it's encoded at 320 but then the filesize is very high. The files are smaller, no unused space taken up.

The typical file size is a little bigger than average ......

My VBR files end up smaller, but I guess if you encode at a constant 320 then the files would be smaller. The file size also would depend on the lower end bitrate you set as well, I usually set my low end at no < 160.

Fixing VBR timestamps is a breeze, at least for Linux users (dunno about Windows).

Among your options is my mp3tool program (free, w/source) that can be batched to fix the VBR timestamps on your entire music collection from a single command. Eg.

find . -name \*.mp3 -exec mp3tool --repair {} \;

There presumably is a similar method for Windows, possibly involving a lot more mouse-clicking.

As a new user, what exactly is the bug with the timestamp and VBR's ?

I'm using 2.0b3

The "bug" is that MANY MANY .mp3 encoders fail to fill in the "timestamp" information correctly when creating .mp3 files. As a result, various players (including the Empeg/Rio) may screw up when trying to fastforward or rewind within a song, or even just display the wrong Elapsed time for a track.

If the FF/REW buttons fail to work on a particular track on your Empeg, then you know that track has VBR timestamp problems.

Although i've not tested extensively, but I have played say > 100 songs encoded at VBR, i've not seen any problems.

I use AudioGrabber.

Should I have noticed something or be looking out for something ?

One thing we've seen is that installing RealJukebox breaks the Xing VBR encoder, so that it no longer outputs correct timestamps.

Thanks for the advice. I have settled on VBR. So far, I cannot tell the difference between LAME -V0 -Q0 and the CBR 320 I was using before (yeah, yeah, don't chastise me for using 320 at first). I am now saving 40% - 50% of the disk space with identical sound quality (to my ears, anyway).

Timestamps work great in the Rio Car but not the iPaq PA-1. Life goes on. (The PA-1 doesn't support ID3 tags, so what do you expect?)

May all your MP3 encoding questions be answered... at r3mix.net

Read and believe.

Hmm, the first thing I noticed there was big icon with ID3v2 logo crossed. I clicked it and found a rant against ID3v2 tags, including very authoritatively sounding claim that VBR and ID3v2 don't go together, that tags render VBR headers unusable, and that neither WinAmp not any other player will play those files correctly (presumably because tags obscure VBR header). Well, my EAC/lame ripped/encoded VBR files play, rewind, FF, show timecodes etc perfectly, both on WinAmp and empeg (whether EAC/lame puts VBR header in front of tags, or both players I use are simply well written, I dont know). The guy goes as far as saying that some users might report good results, but that they were wrong! Apparently, the phrase YMMV is not in the guy's vocabulary...

You might try following advice of a guy I ranted against here and strip ID3v2 tags (and perhaps check/rebuild VBR header) for use with iPaq.

If your ipaq doesnt have much storage, you may want to use another codec or different settings for the music you put on it. WMA is pretty efficient at low bitrates and lame is good at 128 cbr too.

Sean