Here's what I have for sale. I'm not trying to rub anything in anyone's face. Just letting users know I have some, its up to them if they are surfing the for sale boards...

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1320030568

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1319712180

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1319960001

How many did you buy before real Empeg lovers ......

John 3:16, pretty simple huh?

Is it just me? Why is it that when I see folks quote/reference scripture in the context of a deal like this, I also hear the faint but unmistakable sound of a zipper being lowered and I get a sudden urge to pull on my kevlar Carhart overalls and stand with my back against the wall?

What Would Bob Do?

The John 3:16 reference has nothing to do with the context of the post. Nor is it some endorsement of commerce. I simply added it to my default sig, John 3:16 is good news and I invite anyone to find it. I find this has a lot more meaning for a sig than something like "monkeys are wild in the jungle".

I usually hear scripture from those who were the money-changers in the temple in past lives...

(and yes, John 3:16 is quite simple, but complexity is not the problem many have with it)

"If a friend does not cough up the promised dough for the unit I procured for him, I will turn it around for COST." -- Fogduck 13:37

People tend to pick the scripture that suits them. The hell with the rest.

Calvin

Reference the recent Prayer of Jabez bullshit.

And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days.

from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10


And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.

from The Book of Mozilla, 3:31 (Red Letter Edition)

What is the Prayer of Jabez? It's too late in the day for me to wade through that junk.

Calvin

There's this guy named Bruce Wilkinson who stumbled upon a very obscure passage in the Bible (embedded amongst a load of ``begat''s) where some guy named Jabez prayed to God to increase his wealth and God complied.<sup>[1]</sup> There are literally three verses in the Bible that reference Jabez at all. So Mr. Wilkinson decided that it would be a good idea to publish a book called The Prayer of Jabez that encourages people to pray to God to increase their wealth. Prayers include asking for the value of your stock portfolio to be increased and such. It's been on the New York Times Hardcover Advice bestseller list for 45 weeks. Right now, it's at number two. Anyway, apparently, according to Mr. Wilkinson, this obscure reference in the Bible is more important than ``Do unto others ...'' and the other actually important teachings in the Bible. It really pisses me off to no extent, especially when you realize that in the zero-sum game that is today's stock market, when you make money, someone else loses money. Not that it's not the chance that they aren't intentionally taking, but when you think about it, these types of prayers come down to: ``God, please take someone else's money and give it to me.'' The next time you're in a bookstore, find one. It'll likely be right up by the registers (apparently, it's a big impulse buy) and give it a look-through. It'll make you want to hit someone.

^[1] 1 Chronicles 4:10 Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, "Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain." And God granted his request.

Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory!

And we're sure he was talking about money, then? I've heard there's lots of guys who want their 'territory' enlarged.

The stock market isn't a zero sum game. It's certainly possible for all players to profit. In a zero sum game that is not possible.

Calvin

Define how the stock market is not a zero-sum game. Assuming there are no unowned stocks, the only way I can make money is for a stock price to go up. The only way for a stock price to go up is for there to be greater demand. The only way for there to be greater demand is for more money to be thrown at that stock. The only way to provide that money is to add more money from outside (which means that person loses money) or for money to be taken from other stocks by selling them, causing those stock prices to do down, losing money for those stockholders.

That's because the stock market is not a closed system. Number of shares, number of players, and other factors are not fixed.

So. The exchange of a share of stock at any moment in time is an exchange of one equivalent piece of equity for another. No money is lost in the process. The value of that share of stock depends on the moment in time the transaction is made, and if no transaction is made, no money is gained nor lost.

So if there are ten initial total players in the market, for a defined period of time, each of these ten players initiate a fair exchange of equity. They give up some equity for another piece of equity of equal value. The process of exchanging equity may or may not create a perceived demand that at some later point in time raise the perceived value of the stock.

1) If any of the initial ten players chooses to obtain additional stock that is now worth more, then they will have to give up more equity in order to obtain an equivalent amount. If they do so, no equity is lost in the process if they obtain the same share of stock in exchange for a larger amount of equity or money. Previously purchased shares are not de-valued. If the players sell to each other, or to new players no money is lost. It is possible using this case, and variations of, to continue to increase all the shareholder's equity over time.

The opposite is true, it is possible for money to exit the system entirely, and equity to completely dissapear, as in a case of bankruptcy. You can exchange a large amount of equity for some number of shares that due to any number of reasons could suddenly be worth zero.

In a zero sum game, if 1 person loses a dollar, another person gains 1 dollar. In the stock market, being not a closed system, 1 person can gain a dollar, exchange the property to another person, who will gain another dollar. Also, 1 person may lose a dollar, and another person can lose a dollar as well. There's no rule that says everything sums to 0.

Calvin

I think to disprove zero sum, we need but one example, correct? Wouldn't one example be a company that pays a dividend? That money did not come from investors directly.

$100 to buy one share of F. That $100 goes to seller X.
Buyer Y then gets $2 dividend. Then sells one share for $100
to buyer Z. Total investor outlay is $100, but buyer Y now has $2 more than before.

You got it. To disprove zero sum you need 1 example.

The stock market has an incredible number of inputs and outputs some of which have not been identified. You can say mass and energy is a zero sum game. But the stock market? nah.

Calvin

Okay, okay ... near-zero-sum. Regardless, you get my point. Stop picking nits.

But it isn't even near zero sum, it is far from it.

Okay! Greed is good. Money is everything. I love Big Bird. Please make the call.

Hey, we can't have you giving bad info to the kiddies.

But yes, Big Bird is good. I like the blue guy myself...