I don't want to leap to Jeremy's defence or anything, but here is something from the Empeg Ltd Press Release when it was aquired by SB in late 2000 and I quote:

In reply to:

---

How did empeg become involved with SONICblue?

In late 1999 empeg developed a home networked thin client for digital audio distribution over the emerging Home PNA standard. The concept platform was demonstrated to major OEM clients at Comdex and CES, and from there a relationship was formed with S3. Empeg went on to develop the Dell Audio Receiver and Rio Receiver products for S3.

---

So, yes Empeg Ltd did have a relationship with S3, its not improbable that S3 (or a related company) bought/swapped/whatever some Empegs for 'internal use' within S3 (maybe as gifts for important customers or employees etc) and this stock is what Jeremy is now selling.

I don't know but I think it would be wise for Jeremy to show from where and under what circumstances this stock was acquired.

If the units are refurbs, or lost stock or something, fine, but it should be stated that way.

It doesn't help the perception that something is not right about these goods when they are initally promoted as Mk2A's and then when questioned to finally admit they are Mk2s in fact.

I don't need to buy any more units but I'd be pissed off if I thought I was buying a brand *new* Mk2A and I got a refurb or a at least 15 month old Mk2.
Some folks will be just grateful to get one at all - I'd just make sure I knew what is was that I was buying.

As I have said many times, the units are brand new, and come directly from S3, I am not sure what more I can say.

Perhaps "S3" is now producing Mk2 units because SonicBlue EOLed the Mk2a units and they're hoping to make a quick buck? Even if I didn't already have a Mk2a (for #399 + S&H) on it's way, I think I would go for an Ebay before buying new (older) unit from mysterious stock that noone (but one) on here seems to know where they came from.

Even if I'm told 1 + 1 = 5, I'm not going to believe it unless it makes sense. A stock of old model units that were supposedly all sold individually now suddenly appearing after the current model is EOLed for about what you can get it for on Ebay... Consumer confidence is low..

Some clarification is needed here!

I set up this deal with Jeremy at CES, and then my colleagues in the UK SONICblue office arranged the details. Jeremy's stock has not come from one of our online points of sale, but it is brand new and identical to units sold by SONICblue.

The units are Mk.2A - Rio Car players. I don't know where the confusion crept in, but there are only a few unsold Mk.2 units which we are keeping at Cambridge for service. Jeremy has also ordered a quantity of accessories, which are also regular Rio Car products.

So in conclusion, these players are legitimate regular Rio Car units. I believe that this method of distribution is superior to others that were considered, and my opinion is that Jeremy's margin is quite reasonable (certainly preferable to eBay rates!).

Rob

Thnx for the info Rob.. Makes sense now..

I think the confusion was that JBCP kept insisting that they are "EMPEG Mark 2's" and "not the MK2a as they sell in the US store"..

Thanks very much for the clarifications, Rob. Sorry we were getting testy about it. Glad to see that there's more units available now.

That all makes perfect sense now.

I guess the way that Jeremy keept referring to SB as 'S3' all the time put peoples backs up - if he had referred to them by their correct name of SonicBlue then this would not caused as much confusion.

Jeremy also could have said 'this deal was arranged recently with Rob at CES2002' not just 'deal occured at CES' as Hugo,Rob etc have been to at least 2, possibly 3 CES shows that I know of and therefore it was difficult to know if this was a recent arrangement or a very old one.

And of course, when Hugo denied all knowledge that made it look worse. But then Hugo probably was not aware or [more likely] had simply forgotten about it as Jeremy said.

I think Jeremy is being perfectly fair to offer these units here first - the mark up is reasonable, especially as he does ship internationally [and at a very attractive rate] - much better than Fleabay.

Yes we can see now why he has no stock right now, but will next week - its probably still in transit from the UK.
Its probably why he was a bit hazy about exactly what he was getting also.

Yes its all legitimate - Rob says so.

So Jeremy - thanks for the kind offer to readers of this BBS.

Its just a real pity that some of the details now becoming apparent were not stated up front by those who had betterl knowledge of this arrangement and this has lead to this state of confusion and distrust.

Anyway, hopefully you will find lots of willing buyers now amungst the readers who want a extra unit [or their first one].

I must say if I did need another RioCar, my order would be on its way to you right now [esp. now I know the full story].

As I don't need one, that leaves room for another who does want one, to get one at a reasonable price.

Let the buying begin...

I think Jeremy was passed some inaccurate information about the models - not his fault. I didn't read into Hugo's post any suggestion that the deal was unknown to him - but rather that the model could not be Mk.2.

The international shipping rate is indeed pretty good - less than we charge from the UK to N.America.

Rob

Thanks, Jeremy... I ordered my 10GB unit from you taoday($299+ship) and cancelled my Sonic Blue 20GB order for $399+$23 Tax + shipping (they said they MAYBE had 125 units left as of Monday AM...) Anyway, I will take my $123 difference and put it toward a 30GB laptop drive online...
Thanks for posting on the BBS first Jeremy!
Dr. Rings
San Diego

Are these the 10Gb units we were emailed about from the international store or are those still around?

Many have e-mailed asking about shipping charges when two units are ordered. Here is the deal, order one international shipping for the first unit, and a 2nd day shipping for each additional unit. This way on an order of two units, more than $20 is saved. This policy will be in effect for about two weeks, at that time we will probably have to not accept orders for multiple units to make sure everyone gets at least one.

If you previously ordered with only one shipping selected, do not worry about it, we will process your order without it, but for future orders, that is not the case.

http://order.kagi.com/cgi-bin/r1.cgi?1HV2

Actually the 20GB from SB was also $299... hmmm, saving $24 in taxes and a sure deal is not great but "one in the hand is worth two in the bush...) The 20GB unit from SB was a gamble whether it would ship or not, so I guess I did the right thing? But for an extra $125 online I can add an additional 30GB IBM travelstar and take the 10GB from Jeremy and make it a 40GB all for the price of a 30GB from SB, make sense?
Doc

That was my thinking. I have e-mailed Jeremy over there several times and he seems like a nice reliable guy. I have faith my order will come with him, unlike the alternative...

BTW, he did say that it is the RIO remotes he is getting in, not the Kenwoods. Yay, that means there is nothing I have to buy from SB ever again.

We now have the 20gig and 30gig players on our main order page. Should you wish to switch your order to one of these units, please let us know.

Main Order Page: http://order.kagi.com/cgi-bin/r1.cgi?1HV1

Ah, if only you had tuners, too.

We will probably start pre-orders for tuners in 1-2 weeks, delivery about 1-2 months afterwards.

Ah, cool.

Cool.. that will give me time to try to install my other head unit.. if I fail, I'll probably get the tuner..

Will the NEO docking station for the home, which you sell, accept a Rio Car? One of my Rio Cars is for home use and I'm looking for something like that without having to build it on my own. thanks.

Dear Sir,

Sorry, not a chance in the world.

Any idea on tuner cost or is that premature?

Remember that the Rio Car will plug in just fine at home without a docking station. Those who make home docking stations are only doing it to make it look snazzy and make it slightly easier to plug in.

To make a home docking station, you mount a car sled inside an attractive box. There's actually a lot more to it than that, but my point is that you have to use a Rio Car docking sled with a Rio Car, it's not a generic thing, it's very proprietary and specific.

I've added your store link to my online matrix comparing the three main in-car jukebox products:

http://www.mypocket.com/mobilematrix/index.php

Feel free to link to it from your page if you want people to see why the Rio/empeg is so much better than anything else.

Because no one has asked... Where are these (1-2 month away) tuners coming from? Are you talking about the possibility of having another batch manufactured as mentioned previously by Rob and Hugo?

Bruno

Are you talking about the possibility of having another batch manufactured as mentioned previously by Rob and Hugo?

Yes, I believe that is precisely what he's talking about. Hence the need for pre-orders followed by a waiting period of a couple months (while he gets them made).

Jeremy, I notice the updated web page now shows international shipping as $38 rather than $48 when I ordered on Monday.

Why the change ?

If that's what he's talking about then I'd like to point out that we haven't decided for sure that we are going to give a licence to make these, and if we do we haven't decided who is going to get that licence. Several people have expressed an interest.

We're still waiting for confirmation that the factory is available for making this product, what their minimum quantities are, and what the lead time is on components.

Rob

Just put an order for a 10gig in on the carplayer site. Does anyone know how likely it will be that these orders can be fulfilled?

I was talking about tuners not players - I know for a fact that Jeremy has completed the purchase of a batch of players, so I don't think you need worry about that.

Rob

Suppose I should've put myself down for a 20 Gig version then!

We have two order pages, the one linked to the message board with 10gig for $299 has $48 shipping. The main order page with 10gig for $319 has $38 shipping, you cannot mix and match, sorry.