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#87869 - 04/06/2002 03:44 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: thinfourth2]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
Last time I bought a solder iron from Maplin I got an Antex with a stand, a couple of extra bits and a reel of solder. I think I paid about 20. I've now got a temp controlled Weller (but my employer paid for that even though I've not had to use an iron at work for over a year!).
The Antex was a good reliable iron with a good quality fine tip on it. As for projects, I bought a sinewave generator kit from Maplin about six months ago, piece of piss to build and, looking at pca's design probably well suited for practice.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#87870 - 04/06/2002 06:28 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: canuckInOR]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Funny, I thought I *was* speaking for myself...

Yeah I know penalty kicks are heavily biased towards the shooter. In two of my years of playing soccer I played keeper. We never settled ties with shootouts at age 12, of course, but I did have to try to defend penalty kicks due to fouls in the penalty area (I think I made one save in perhaps seven or eight opportunities, and that was only because the ball basically went right to me.)

Having said all that, I still think ties suck. Your point is valid in that a keeper has little chance to do anything about penalty kicks, so why not make the players put the ball in from the 18 yard line during shootouts instead of from the penalty mark at 12 yards? Normal penalty kicks would still be taken from the penalty mark, but during overtime, why not move the players back a little? In this scenario, the keeper would have a much better chance to break on the ball, yet the shooter would still have a reasonable chance to score with a well-placed kick. Allowing the keeper to leave the goal line before the ball is kicked could also increase his chances a little bit.

Even with all the advantages the shooter has in shootouts, it's still up to them to put the ball into the net... So I don't know why the winner would feel unsatisfied about winning on shootouts. I guess it's better to win in the course of a normal game, but I'd frankly prefer "counting potatoes" if it means that after I've paid my $TICKET_PRICE I leave the game knowing someone won and someone lost.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#87871 - 04/06/2002 07:32 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: tonyc]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
But why must there be a winner and a loser?

I can't understand why American sports can't accept the concept that when 2 teams are so equally matched, it is fair to share the points. Basketball in particular - so many games are decided arbitrairily during the dying seconds that it's crazy, and I don't believe that the division standings can be truly representative because of this.

Even during the playoffs where one team does have to win, it's not much better - the LA Lakers go to the NBA final, while Sacramento get Jack Sh*t. Yet, after 7 games (336 minutes) - , it came down to the final 30 seconds, when the teams were playing the clock, not each other. That's hardly fair. In that situation, where someone has to win, I'd rather see a sudden death overtime whereby the first team to take a 9 point lead wins.

I'm not a fan of penalty shoot-outs in football either. I'd rather see repeated extra-times (non-Golden-Goal) with a decrementing team count. (eg, 9-a-side for the first period, 7-a-side for the second, 5-a-side for the third), but only in competitions where it really mattered.

Anyway, any attempts to change league games to disallow draws would be vigorously opposed by Littlewoods Pools and gamblers
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#87872 - 04/06/2002 07:49 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: genixia]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Well, I actually like the fact that when the clock hits zero, you need to have more points than the other guy. I disagree that regular season games are decided "arbitrarily." You have 48 minutes to get more points than the other guy. If you're tied, you get another 5 minutes, and another 5... The teams aren't playing the clock during the game, they're playing the other team. If they're not ahead when the clock approaches zero, that means they didn't play as well as the other team did during the first 47 minutes and 30 seconds, and they deserve to lose if they can't produce on the last possession.

I also follow NHL hockey, which is also cursed with the concept of ties (and even gives a point for losses during overtime, a concept that boggles my mind.) I would prefer NHL games would have a 5 minute overtime followed by shootouts. Put your best scorers against their goalie and see who wants to win.

I guess it boils down to the fact that you're there to win, and in a tie, nobody wins. The objective of a game is to determine who the better team is, and no two teams are "evenly matched." Does the best team ALWAYS win? Nope. But not all ties are the result of two evenly-matched teams either, sometimes a team just gets lucky.

Incidentally, I like your decrementing team count idea, but I'd rather see the field made smaller and the games be 9 or 7 per side throughout the game. Having 11 people on a team makes it so difficult to score, no wonder there are so many "nil nil" ties.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#87873 - 04/06/2002 08:38 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: thinfourth2]
AlB
member

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 149
Loc: SF
"I have a e36 3 series and it has loads of room just drop out your glovebox and nice easy access and i might be possible to mount another din slot in below the clock/trip computer thingy."

Negative on that DIN below the trip computer thingy....The big fakeroo from BMW....it only as deep as the storge bin there now sigh with a big'ol heater box behind that....thanks for the glovebox hint though I'll try it!!

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#87874 - 04/06/2002 15:21 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: AlB]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
Glovebox has 6 or 8 screws from memory.

Two in the air vents above glovebox you might have to remove vents,

Two on the top lip of glove box (maybe last one didn't have it this one does)

Two either side of the actual glovebox under the door when closed

Two right under the glovebox

It should then pull towards you and drop down giving lots of room and hopefully access to the Din slot,

What i have done is cut a hole in the glovebox and lead into it a docked ethernet cable, serial cable, tuner cable, and aux in cable.

_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#87875 - 04/06/2002 17:55 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: pca]
MisterBeefhead
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 161
Loc: Crete, Il USA
Ok, so I've read through the above thread twice and still cannot glean a "near definite" answer - Are these more or less definitely going to happen? I have the opportunity to buy an original tuner module for $250, which would be worth it for me, but would much rather wait for the kit. Am I a fool if I let the $250 tuner slip by, or what?

I'm really going to be kicking myself if I end up with no tuner whatsoever.

_________________________
_____________________________ It's getting to be ri-god-damn-diculous.

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#87876 - 05/06/2002 03:44 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: MisterBeefhead]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5328
Loc: Cambridge UK
I don't suppose anyone will say "definite" until the prototypes are built and working - but Patrick just handed over a large amount of money to the PCB manufacturer to get the first few sets of boards, so I'm sure he fully intends to take it to market!

Rob

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#87877 - 05/06/2002 05:12 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: MisterBeefhead]
smu
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2000
Posts: 879
Loc: Germany (Ruhrgebiet)
Hi.

Even though I am certain that Patrick will make his tuner kit available (once he got it working, which I am sure he will), this might still be months away. Even if he uses the (immediately available) weather band version of the tuner module, I still guess that it will be another month or two away. So if you want a tuner, and it is worth the 250$ to you, I would buy that one. However, if you are willing to wait up to 4 month for the tuner kit from Patrick to become available (which would be realistic if he has to use the non-weatherband tuner modules), wait for it.

cu,
sven

PS: With this post, I should leave the "addict" state. Yippieh.
_________________________
proud owner of MkII 40GB & MkIIa 60GB both lit by God and HiJacked by Lord

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#87878 - 05/06/2002 07:23 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: smu]
MisterBeefhead
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 161
Loc: Crete, Il USA
I see your point, but I wouldn't want to not buy one of Patrick's kits after all his effort. I can wait. Perhaps I'll point the fellow towards Ebay (He has never trusted "playing internet").

Plus, I shall now recommend to my (other) financially impaired friend that she might want to consider selling her tuner off to one of the (apparently extraordinarily wealthy) buyers on Ebay.

Thanks for the input, fellows.
_________________________
_____________________________ It's getting to be ri-god-damn-diculous.

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#87879 - 06/06/2002 11:42 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Hi.

I have been beavering away at a spreadsheet, working out the cost of making the kits available to you, the deserving public. It's looking eminently feasible, although it's going to cost me several thousand quid to get the first batch out the door.

At this time I'm not going definitely to commit to making large quantities just yet, but I'd say it was about 85% certain and rising that this will happen. Initially, the price I have come up with as being viable is about 110 UKP or 160 USD, plus shipping. This last item will obviously vary considerably depending on method and destination, and is still subject to research.

I am aiming to have credit card facilities in place by the time this all happens, although the first few might be done via Paypal or some such method. The intention is, assuming all goes well, to produce batches of 25 kits, shipping one batch before starting the next.

After a few batches, I should have the capital to increase the batch size, which will speed things up considerably.

The idea is that the kit will consist of the PCB set, the predrilled box, all the components, the mechanical mounting bits and pieces, precut lengths of wire and connectors to make the wiring harness, and the instructions, all in a sesame seed bun (or cardboard box, which will probably ship better). I will hopefully have something working for the Great Dutch Meet, and should have a better idea of everything that's currently up in the air a little.

At the moment, I'm not taking orders. When (and if) I'm ready, I will set up a web page where potential buyers can contact me with their details. Since the batch size is small, there will probably be a bit of a wait, but assuming all goes well it should be quite short.

Patrick
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#87880 - 06/06/2002 13:42 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3579
Loc: Columbus, OH
Excellent news! I await your anouncement of availibility with bated breath and open billfold.
_________________________
~ John

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#87881 - 06/06/2002 13:55 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
I do believe we have a winner!

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#87882 - 06/06/2002 15:16 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
Cool does this mean the infamous patrick web site will be updated.

Intrestingly this was how i first discovered the empeg after going there trying to find out about self build jet engines.
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#87883 - 06/06/2002 19:05 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 597
Loc: Florida
pca, If you have enough people willing to pay up front will you make more than 25 kits per batch? Or do you want to make less to make sure everything goes smoothly?
_________________________
Chad

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#87884 - 06/06/2002 19:47 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
Satan_X
enthusiast

Registered: 22/03/2002
Posts: 251
Loc: Ramsey, NJ
Patrick, you get my vote to become a 'fellow'. I must thank
you for the all the work you did to get us 'tuner challenged' people a tuner. You sir, are a 'fellow' to me.
_________________________
VW R32 Empeg 50gig 'Stormy 3 has snuck in a dodgeball' - Stormy 1

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#87885 - 07/06/2002 13:10 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: Attack]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
At least at first, I'm only going to do batches of 25, at least partly due to logistical reasons.

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#87886 - 07/06/2002 16:07 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
Anonymous
Unregistered


$160 might be a little too steep for me.

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#87887 - 07/06/2002 19:04 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: ]
Satan_X
enthusiast

Registered: 22/03/2002
Posts: 251
Loc: Ramsey, NJ
$160 is a hell of a lot better then $400+, I'm getting excited....
_________________________
VW R32 Empeg 50gig 'Stormy 3 has snuck in a dodgeball' - Stormy 1

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#87888 - 08/06/2002 10:00 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: Satan_X]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's definitely better.

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#87889 - 09/06/2002 07:39 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: pca]
Aragon
member

Registered: 17/05/2002
Posts: 148
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi,

I think this is an awesome idea. Not only is it a big money saver for the tunerless in need, but it sounds like fun! Put me down for a kit please


Thanks,
Aragon

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#87890 - 09/06/2002 13:05 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: Aragon]
Applefool
new poster

Registered: 22/04/2002
Posts: 5
Loc: Rochester, NY
Any thoughts as to when this kit will be availabe and at what cost? If needed to be expressed here, please sign me up for one as well..
_________________________
95 Saturn SL2 Empeg 10GB (4 Rockford HPC1206 6.5" Speakers 1 JL 10w0 Sub)

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#87891 - 10/06/2002 07:03 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: ]
lamer
journeyman

Registered: 30/01/2002
Posts: 87
Loc: Texas
Welcome to the world of low volume electronics... We are lucky the NRE and logistics are donated

Those of us that love the empeg and love talk radio are dehydrating from salivation. Funny - that word is so close to salvation... (heh heh)

Thanks Patrick.
_________________________
MK2a 160GB

11 Years later, these Mk2a units still rock...

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#87892 - 10/06/2002 07:37 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
Once you've got the tuners going in batches bigger than 25, do you want to turn your hand to doing batches of 25 kits for the only thing in the universe that seems more desirable than the tuner, since it was discontinued: the Empeg?

Oops, only joking! I know it's not possible.
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag

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#87893 - 10/06/2002 13:15 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: boxer]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Oops, only joking! I know it's not possible

Well, it depends on your definition of not possible...

I mean, all the prospective kit builder neets is the ability to hand solder 256 pin uBGA package chips (since the 208 QFP version of the strongarm is no longer made). If you can do that, the rest of it's easy

Patrick
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#87894 - 10/06/2002 13:20 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update redux) [Re: pca]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Hi.

Well, all the parts for the prototypes have arrived, and I'm going to be picking up the PCBs on Thursday afternoon on my way up to Cambridge. Assuming Rob can keep the car fairly steady on the way to the ferry, I should have one built by the meeting.

It may even work.

On another note, I see with some interest that this is now officially the longest thread ever on the BBS, by both number of views and number of replies. Wheeeeee!

Patrick
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#87895 - 10/06/2002 14:44 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: pca]
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
hand solder 256 pin uBGA package chips

Could you supply boards with the BGA device pre-soldered?

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#87896 - 10/06/2002 14:44 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update redux) [Re: pca]
Satan_X
enthusiast

Registered: 22/03/2002
Posts: 251
Loc: Ramsey, NJ
Damn, may have to stow away on a plane to get to europe.....need tuner...
_________________________
VW R32 Empeg 50gig 'Stormy 3 has snuck in a dodgeball' - Stormy 1

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#87897 - 10/06/2002 15:03 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: AndrewT]
snoopstah
enthusiast

Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 337
Loc: Squamish, BC
Then you couldn't do the rest of the soldering

I.e. if you can solder the SA chip, the rest of the soldering will be easy for you. But if you can't solder the SA chip, the rest of the soldering would be somewhere between hard and impossible

A.
_________________________
Empeg Mk2a 128G with amber lit buttons kit - #30102490

PhotoVancouver | Squamish, BC Webcam | Personal Website

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#87898 - 10/06/2002 17:07 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (again, update) [Re: snoopstah]
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
What we are talking about here are two different assembly technologies:
I (and others I would presume) can solder FQFP at ~200 pins no problem at all (as per pre-existing Empegs).
As for BGAs or uBGA's, they are too high tech (and expensive) to work with - I'd rather someone else did them for me - until I aquire the necessary 'gear' that is


Edited by Rue (10/06/2002 17:08)

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