#299424 - 14/06/2007 19:22
Turning cassettes into MP3s
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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SWMBO has about 100 cassettes collected over a 40 year period that she wants to listen to on her empeg. Few if any of these are available on CD.
I am finding it a time-consuming and frustrating process to turn them into MP3 files.
Presently I am using the cassette deck that used to be in the ShoWagon, running it through Total Recorder to write 32-256 VBR MP3 files.
Total Recorder has some nice bells and whistles, like the ability to stop recording when the input level drops to nn decibels for nn seconds, and the ability to delete pauses in the audio of more than nn seconds, as happens when the cassette auto-reverses. Unfortunately, the cassette deck sends enough noise down the line during auto reverse that Total Recorder just keeps right on recording.
There must be people here who have converted cassette collections over to MP3s. Does anyone have ideas of a better way to do it?
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#299425 - 14/06/2007 19:44
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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And for those who are wondering, I already gave Doug my advice on this topic, which is: Buy the CDs or find the MP3s on a filesharing site. I don't think there's anything worth the amount of trouble you'd have to go to in order to do the cassette-ripping task. I shudder to think the amount of work and hassle this is. I can understand the need to do cassette rips only if the songs are unavailable in any other way. So he's already heard that particular advice, you don't need to give it to him again.  Side note: I think this is one of those situations when finding the MP3s on a filesharing site is perhaps justified. Not *legal*, but justified. You already own purchased copies of these songs, you just want to play them on new devices.
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#299426 - 14/06/2007 19:56
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Assuming you cannot or will not get CD or MP3 replacements:
I think the first thing I'd do is just record each side as a WAV, without trying to chop it up into tracks. Then go back after the fact and chop it up. Yeah, that's probably a lot of storage (22GB, assuming 45m tapes and assuming my math is right), so you might not be able to do it all at once. I'd still do as many as possible at once. It's likely going to be a lot easier to hit play, wait 22 minutes, flip the tape, hit play, wait 22 minutes than it is going to be to try to cue the tape properly for each song.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299427 - 14/06/2007 19:58
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Bitt Faulk
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#299428 - 14/06/2007 20:25
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I could have sworn that Cool Edit Pro used to be able to do some smart dividing of tracks from a WAV file. I remember recording a friend's college radio show for him and doing just that. But it's been a long while, and it's not even called Cool Edit Pro anymore (can't remember what Adobe calls it now - "Future UI Nightmare"?). And if you want a free and easy way of capturing the audio, Audacity is great. Just make sure your computer isn't making any unexpected noises while you're recording. Aside from that, I agree with Tony
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Matt
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#299429 - 14/06/2007 20:31
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
(can't remember what Adobe calls it now - "Future UI Nightmare"?).
ROFLMAOASTC 
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#299430 - 14/06/2007 20:43
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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member
Registered: 09/03/2003
Posts: 121
Loc: Iowa
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I have used total recorder in the past to convert books on tape. Total recorder allows you to record for xx amount of time. So for 90 minute cassettes I set total recorder to record for 45 minutes, start the tape, and let it record as a wav file. I come back later and use total recorder to mark the beginning just before the sound starts and mark the end just after the tape ends and do a SaveAS to eliminate any extra silence at the beginning and/or end. I then convert the wav to mp3.
Since your player can play both sides, I would record the whole thing then SaveAs twice, once for each cassette side.
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#299431 - 15/06/2007 05:41
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
I think the first thing I'd do is just record each side as a WAV, without trying to chop it up into tracks. Then go back after the fact and chop it up.
Total Recorder converts to MP3 on the fly, and at the same time creates an editable sound image of the MP3 file. So I can just start the cassette, come back 90 minutes later, stop the recording, and then edit out the auto-reverse pauses before I save the file.
I have found the automatic pause reduction and automatic track splitting features to be (so far) unusable as the silence-sensing algorithm is not sophisticated enough to differentiate between random noise spikes generated by the auto-reverse process, and actual audio. Ironically, those spikes are apparently at a frequency that either my ears or my equipment can't detect, because I can't hear them but I can definitely see them in the sound image file and whatever Total Recorder can "see" it records.
The specialized software that Bitt refers two a couple of posts down the list appears to be much like a stripped down version of Total Recorder. Almost certainly easier to use, but since I already own Total Recorder and it can (theoretically) do everything that the specialized software can do, I'll stick with what I've got.
Thanks, Bitt, for that link though.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#299432 - 15/06/2007 05:51
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: Gleep]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
I set total recorder to record for 45 minutes, start the tape, and let it record as a wav file.
This is embarrassing, but I cannot figure out how to get TR to save a file in *.wav format. I can save in MP3, Ogg Vorbis, WMA, FLAC, PCM... but nowhere do I find the option to save as *.wav.
Since TR can edit and split the actual MP3 files, this hasn't been a big problem, but I would like to know what I am overlooking.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#299433 - 15/06/2007 05:55
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5682
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
PCM...
WAV is usually just PCM with a header on it.
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#299434 - 15/06/2007 06:03
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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...ASTC?
A new one on me Tony
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#299435 - 15/06/2007 10:08
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: frog51]
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veteran
Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
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and scaring the cat
I had to look it up too.
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#299436 - 15/06/2007 10:49
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Total Recorder converts to MP3 on the fly, and at the same time creates an editable sound image of the MP3 file.
So you're saying it allows you to split MP3 files without reencoding? Impressive if true.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299437 - 15/06/2007 15:52
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
So you're saying it allows you to split MP3 files without reencoding? Impressive if true.
Splitting MP3 files without re-encoding is trivial. You simply make sure your cuts are at frame boundaries and you're done.
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#299438 - 15/06/2007 16:04
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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That is not true. You need to read about the "bit reservoir". Splitting at the frames is possible if the encoder did not use the bit reservoir, but that reduces the potential audio quality. I have not encountered an mp3 that did not utilize the bit reservoir.
Edited by wfaulk (15/06/2007 16:06)
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Bitt Faulk
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#299439 - 15/06/2007 18:50
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
Splitting MP3 files without re-encoding is trivial. You simply make sure your cuts are at frame boundaries and you're done.
MP3 Tag Studio has been doing it for years...
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#299440 - 15/06/2007 19:06
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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After it screwed up any number of my mp3s just with its retagging "features", I stopped using it. If it can't manage to tag properly, I certainly wouldn't trust it with editing audio data.
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Bitt Faulk
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#299441 - 15/06/2007 22:07
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5543
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
After it screwed up any number of my mp3s just with its retagging "features", I stopped using it.
That is most unusual.
I have about 15,000 MP3s, every single one of them tagged with MP3TS, and not a single problem.
I have had unexpected results at times, but in every case it was operator error on my part that caused it. The tools built into the program are sweeping and powerful, and it is not too difficult to do something wrong.
I haven't used the more esoteric MP3TS features like scripting and string replacement, but I have used just about everything else.
I'm guessing that MP3TS is probbly the most widely used tagging tool among bbs member here. Has anyone else had problems with it?
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#299442 - 15/06/2007 23:28
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Has anyone else had problems with it?
None at all. It's the only windows application I miss on my mac, so far I haven't found anything of the same caliber. It does have one option to allow you to overwrite the first frame with the tag data to speed up mass id3v1 to id3v2 transitions or something, but I remember it warning pretty throughly about that.
Matthew
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#299443 - 15/06/2007 23:45
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I like it too. It's kind of hard to get the options right but it was the best thing I could find.
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Matt
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#299444 - 16/06/2007 02:12
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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There are no stand-alone MP3 tag editors for the Mac that match even the most trivial program for Windows unfortunately. The best for Windows (reportedly) at this time seems to be MP3Tag. I have licenses for MP3TS and Dr.Tag which both had their strengths. Now I just use iTunes along with numerous scripts for tag management. The biggest thing missing from iTunes is the inability to work on "files" For splitting MP3s there are a number of tools, but I have no idea if they affect the sound quality of the split portions. Might as well capture to WAV, split and then encode to be safe.
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#299445 - 16/06/2007 05:31
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
That is not true. You need to read about the "bit reservoir". Splitting at the frames is possible if the encoder did not use the bit reservoir, but that reduces the potential audio quality. I have not encountered an mp3 that did not utilize the bit reservoir.
I know all about the bit reservoir, and I'm telling you, for the purposes he's talking about, it's a complete nonissue.
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#299446 - 16/06/2007 10:07
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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member
Registered: 09/03/2003
Posts: 121
Loc: Iowa
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#299448 - 16/06/2007 12:47
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I'm another devoted user of MP3TS. using that and a program called THE Rename I can do anything with MP3's.
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Matt
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#299450 - 17/06/2007 10:15
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2616
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
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I use a combination of MP3 Tag studio and Tag&Rename. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. This combination works very well for me.
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#299451 - 18/06/2007 01:04
Re: Turning cassettes into MP3s
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
Pretty much the same as my setup... just a lot neater package!
Bwahaha!!
Yeah, it's slightly neater.
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