Just another crazy thought as a response to a thread elsewhere on the BBS:

What if we, as a community, pooled our collective creativity and collective large money clips and worked on a project to design and contract the production of new fascias for our empegs.

We could set up groups: A design group, a production contact group, a banking group (to manage the funds), a distribution group, a quality testing group, etc.

We could elect moderators to help keep things under control.

We could vote on each stage of the process. "Ok, design team, submit your designs for review by the community." and we could all vote on the one we like. Perhaps we could reach a design that had elements of everyone's preference; thus creating the ultimate user-made fascia. We could also vote on which plastics producer to use and vote on what quantity to use.

Funds would be handled by dues. Perhaps we could estimate a budget for the project and create a per/member cost that would cover the cost of the project. I'd estimate we'd want to make 10,000 fascias; 2 for every player out there (assuming I'm right in thinking there are 5000 players out there). That would leave enough for spare and make the per/unit cost pretty low. Members of the project would get them at reduced rates (if not free because of their contribution (but per/unit retail pricing could be calculated based on profit margin (which would be 0 because we'd just want to break even, if nothing else (um, now can I close all these brackets?)))) and non-members could pay a fee.

Hm, I kinda like this idea. Anyone else with me in wanting to design a new fascia? Think: What have you always ever wanted out of your fascia but never could have? How can we implement those features?

Ok, we'll be taking nominations for group-heads soon (and I fail to call them committee heads because I don't know how to spell committee). Who's with me?

There is absolutely no way that you'll persuade every empeg owner to buy 2 fascias. For the record ISTR there's about 4000 units out there.

Remember that the vast majority of owners simply use their empegs, rather than get heavily involved in mod'ing them. I'd hazard a guess that if the existing fascia was simply re-designed to make color-changing a 'drop in' affair, and if it could be priced around the $60 point, that you'd still sell less fascias than Brian sells button kits. (I have no idea how many orders he's had...maybe you could ask). And you'd still have competition from the custom fascias (wood, aluminum etc) that have satisfied peoples' creative desires.

I'd also guess that the most successful route for sucess would be to avoid the injection process (ie 1 time high cost, lower per-unit costs) in favor of a CNC machined process that has a higher per-unit cost, but little in 1 time costs (basically prototype costs).

I reckon that if you could get a CNC milled fascia out that;

(a) used standard shaped buttons (and hence compatible with the standard buttons and Brian's button LED buttons)
(b) was similar in styling to the original, but removed the 'Upper Left VFD Obscuration Bug'
(c) allowed very easy color changes
(d) utilised the standard screen pattern (at least for the 'base' color - People won't want to lose their investment in Darkstorm Lenses)
(e) was priced <= $150. (competitive with others)

then you'd probably sell a few, enough to make the venture worthwhile anyway.

What's wrong with 303's aluminium fascias? They're pretty impressive and can be powder coated if you want a different color. Perhaps you could even convince him to modify them for drop in lenses. Since the opening is one piece, a snap in lense could cover the whole thing without leaving any blank spots. You are going to have to find someone to make lenses for you, and while DarkStorm has been great with the ones he has done I don't think he will want to take on another lense design somehow. 303's fascias are not cheap, but considering they're each hand made they probably cost less than they should.

Matthew

This group finds it hard enough to organise a regional meet, let alone an injection moulding tooling and production process. I don't think it would work the way you suggest in a million years. This is the kind of project that needs one or two people to organise it and make decisions undemocratically.

I'm sure that could be achieved but the sums of money involved concern me. Unless there is an inside man on the BBS I don't think you could get it done cheaper than empeg did (our price was based on 4000 off units and a design company that was thinking about future business). You're looking at £25,000 design and tooling (less if someone here does the design - but they must understand about injection moulding; flow lines, taps, release criteria etc).

I don't think you could sell more than 200 sets, so the absolute cheapest you could get them shot is about £15 per set (probably more). Add £125 per set to cover tooling and design and you have £140 each ($224) before profit. The work involved in co-ordinating the designer, tool maker and manufacturer is quite considerable - I spent 3 months in a state of stress continuously driving between suppliers.

In this kind of volume CNC aluminium starts to look like an attractive option..

Rob

I might. I'd need one to design a lens for though.

I agree with Rob. CNC is the way to go for these volumes, in aluminum, stainless, plastic, wood, whatever material you like. Injection mold, however delegated & arranged does not make sense.

-Zeke

This is the kind of project that needs one or two people to organise it and make decisions undemocratically.


Too right!

Doesn't anybody remember the uproar in early 2000 when Rob showed the previews of the current air-foil shaped fascia?

tanstaafl.

Well, it was just a thought. First, I'm not trying to put DarkStorm or 303 out of business. I love their products (I have 5 DarkStorm lenses). See, it was just a random idea.

However crazy it may be, it's still an idea. All of your feedback is interesting. I don't know the first thing about pastics production, so it's interesting to hear the information.

And as far as the idea goes, I'm not JUST the drop-in lense idea (which was kind of impractical anyway). It's more of a redesign; an alternative way of looking at your empeg, kind of like DarkStorm lenses are an alternative way of seeing your VFD. Not that I don't love the original design, because I do, but I just thought it might be neat to see what other people came up with.

Ah, it was just a thought. I'm a visionary and vision is scary. (god, did I just quote THAT?! somebody please hit me with a stick).

First, I'm not trying to put DarkStorm or 303 out of business.


I never thought that you were. I was just pointing out that they have an existing customer base that you'd have to take into account..

'd hazard a guess that if the existing fascia was simply re-designed to make color-changing a 'drop in' affair, and if it could be priced around the $60 point, that you'd still sell less fascias than Brian sells button kits.

The button kits require soldering. This wouldn't.

But competition and impracticality aside, just for creativity's sake, what kind of fascia concept sketches can ya'll come up with? Comeon, I know some of you are bored at work or in class and have a chance to sketch out some ideas.

Unfortunately, my only contribution to the project is the thought of having ridges on the knob. Yeah, a rubberized knob would be great, but it's not easy on production. So, putting ridges around the outside of the knob may make it easier to grip and turn.

Haha, so maybe we should go into knob creation instead...

Very true. But the button LED kits are compelling, and judging from the number of posts we see about the waiting period, I'd guess that Brian sells quite a few. I'm perectly prepared to be proven wrong though

I like 303's design except for the buttons.... I don't like the fact that they are simply round... especially being that I have illuminated buttons and I've dropped serious money molding and casting my own transparent buttons.... a new fascia that
A: had a matching handle and
B: used the standard buttons
would be da business....

Lopan: The round transparent buttons are a standardized part from farnell. So you can still have lighted buttons even if you use 303's fascia.

In fact, I think it even comes with the buttons.

I don't like 303's buttons for a different reason. They're all the same shape and size so that it would be hard to determine which button is which based solely on feel, which is what I do now. Of course, that's one of my problems with the current fascia, because the screw in the current fascia feels quite like the top button to me, causing a lot of unintentional empeg reseating as I push on it.

They're all the same shape and size so that it would be hard to determine which button is which based solely on feel, which is what I do now.

Funny, I never had any problem with that when I was using the Mk1.

It's a hard sell for me.... I still really like the original empeg buttons... Hell I think a group buy for the original empeg buttons only metallic with transparent designs in them would be really cool but thats a pipe dream...

Yeah, but I'm less agile and hand-eye coordinated than you are, oh mighty BFG9000 FAQ-Master.

/me pulls the trigger behind the column then sidesteps quickly to the left.

Haha, let's hope that Bitt wasn't standing to close when you let that loose or the blast might take out you and the rest of the empeg community. Good call.

Ooh, speaking of Doom, anyone know what video game the quote "Welcome to your doom" came from? Damn, I know it's SOMETHING but I just can't place it. I almost have it... Castlevania? no. Some RPG? Not for NES... SNES? Nah...

Altered Beast

Gaaaad, good call! I was trying to pull that answer from memories of playing Genisis 11 years ago (is that right?). Good call...

Reason I mentioned it was because it was integrated with the latest StrongBadE-mail on homestarrunner.com (which someone on this bbs got me hooked on).

That latest one was great. Really captured the web design abilities of the average internet user.

Reminds me of the Simpsons where Homer designs his own web page (Mr. X). Was just on the other day.

"AWwwww, you just got punched in the face!" had me laughing SO hard. I think I'm gonna go watch it now before going to bed.

for u

thx Tony, you are right. if someone order she or he can choose if she or he wanted transparent buttons or black ones

u da man Tony, thats a good one

In reply to:

---

But competition and impracticality aside, just for creativity's sake, what kind of fascia concept sketches can ya'll come up with? Come on, I know some of you are bored at work or in class and have a chance to sketch out some ideas.

---

I've come up with a few before for the Mark I here.
If there was enough interest I might do some up for the Mark II as well.
Anyone that's interested in new designs or having your own design done, drop me an email at darkstorm@bellsouth.net

Holy CRAP! That's a lotta original work there. Good stuff!

How'd you make those? All by hand? Great work.

Thanks.
I designed them in a Casmate then routed them with my CNC router at work.