I'm curious. Why don't the empegs have a headphone jack?

--glenn

Why should they have one?
If used at home it's connected to your amp and there you have a headphone connector.
If used in the car you wouldn't be allowed to wear headphones. The sound of a car-hifi is better than that of a headphone.

I think I've read about someone connected a headphone via the line connectors there in this BBS. But I'm not too sure about that.

TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143

I dunno, I think it'd seem kind of silly since it doesn't run on batteries.

Normally, headphones require a small, very-low-wattage amplifier to drive them. The empeg doesn't have such a circuit. I think that I remember Hugo justifying this design decision at one time here on the BBS, a long time ago. Don't remember why.

If you peek in the FAQ section of this BBS, you'll see the entry on how to hook up headphones...

___________
Tony Fabris

It's not really a silly question. My home CD player in my theater system has a headphone jack, and it does not run on batteries. :-) A small amp for driving a pair of headphones is cheap and small, the kind used in portable cd players. But they're not exactly high quality and wouldn't match the quality of the rest of the product.

Calvin

I think I've read about someone connected a headphone via the line connectors there in this BBS. But I'm not too sure about that.

Uhhh... that would be be me.

I keep my empeg sitting on my desk all day at work, with headphones hooked to the line connectors. This way I can play it as loud as I like without bothering co-workers.

The catch is that you must use some very efficient headphones, the line-outs won't drive anything else. I use a pair of Walkman-style in-the-ear headphones made by Optimus ($22 at Radio Shack) and am totally satisfied. I first tried some cheap headphones (they came bundled with my little pocket radio) and when I switched to the Optimus headphones I had a full 10dB gain in volume. (I normally have my volume (at my desk with the headphones) set from -15dB to -5dB at the loudest)

I don't think that "professional" style headphones (that cover the whole ear, the kind radio announcers would use) would work.

This setup with the empeg on the desk and small headphones works so well, I can't believe that others out there are not doing the same thing!

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Why a headphone jack?
Lots of reasons, but the first is that for me, now, I want to avoid being lynched by the others in the house. They just don't seem to appreciate my new toy as I test out the third and fourth attempts at perfecting the conversion of my favorite song. So you see having a powered headphone jack could literally be a lifesaver. ;)

A nasty thought just occured to me. You don't suppose the lack of a headphone jack is supposed to keep the empeg from competing with some other yet to be announced product, one that is intended to be used in a truly portable fashion?

--Glenn (conspiracies R' us)

I don't think that "professional" style headphones (that cover the whole ear, the kind radio announcers would use) would work.

You have at least two options if you want to use bigger headphones. One is to get a pair of powered speakers with a headphone jack, there are lots of these on the market. Another is a dedicated headphone amplifier, for example the Edcor 2020.

This setup with the empeg on the desk and small headphones works so well, I can't believe that others out there are not doing the same thing!

Listening to loud music with huge headphones lets people know that you'd rather not be disturbed without a really good reason. Small headphones don't communicate that message nearly as well.

Borislav

I checked out the edcor link. $49.98US

The ignorant neandertol in me wants to ask how far towards the high end do the specs they quote fall?

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): Distortion is less than 0.05% (midband) at full rated output.
Frequency Response: 20~20k Hz, ± 0.25 dB.

I checked out the edcor link. $49.98US

The ignorant neandertol in me wants to ask how far towards the high end do the specs they quote fall?

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): Distortion is less than 0.05% (midband) at full rated output.
Frequency Response: 20~20k Hz, ± 0.25 dB.

THD less than 0.1% is believed to be inaudible. The (claimed) frequency response is excellent too, even most high-end amps don't get as close to ideal.

In other words, the specs say you should spend a lot more than $49.98US on headphones to match its quality...

Borislav

Why a headphone jack?
Lots of reasons, but the first is that for me, now, I want to avoid being lynched by the others in the house. They just don't seem to appreciate my new toy as I test out the third and fourth attempts at perfecting the conversion of my favorite song. So you see having a powered headphone jack could literally be a lifesaver. ;)

As I said - connect it to your home-amp and then listen to it via the headphones connected to your amp.

TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143

Erm, we're a part of Rio now, we have rather a lot of ANNOUNCED portable products!

There's nothing ominous about the lack of a headphone jack, it just didn't seem necessary.

Rob

In reply to:

---

This setup with the empeg on the desk and small headphones works so well, I can't believe that others out there are not doing the same thing!

---

I listen to my Empeg while at work (with great big FO headphones so people know not to disturb me), but run the line-outs into the PC line in and plug the headphones into the PC. This has the advantage of being able to hear alerts (mail, IRC etc.) as well as the music, and also means I don't have to worry about whether the Empeg will drive my headphones without melting.

Nick.


--
18Gb blue (now AR red) - s/n 080000299 (original queue position 8724)

I listen to my Empeg while at work , but run the line-outs into the PC line in and plug the headphones into the PC.

Right, this is what I do, as well. It also allows you to balance the volume between your empeg and the other computer sounds using the mixer applet in Windows.

Also, I use a Y-splitter to send the sound card's output to both a pair of powered computer speakers and my headphones. So I can choose to have the speakers turned up, or I can pick up the headphones and turn the speakers down. I can switch back and forth as the situation requires. It works very well.

I do the same thing on my home computer, too, and doing it this way allows you to listen to MP3s while playing games if you wanted.

___________
Tony Fabris

Debauch: I listen to my Empeg while at work , but run the line-outs into the PC line in and plug the headphones into the PC.

Tony: Right, this is what I do, as well.

Are you guys nuts? You have a $1500 stereo with the best quality components (including a Burr-Brown DAC!) and you spent hundreds of hours ripping your CDs at high quality levels... and you listen to it through a $79 PC sound card?

Well, on the other hand, I guess I'm listening to mine through a $22 pair of headphones. In my defense, they are pretty good sounding headphones -- better on midrange than my car stereo, but lacking in sub-bass. But those headphones do not sound anywhere near as good with the empeg running through my PC as they do plugged directly into the line-outs.

Sigh...

tanstaafl.


"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

If you're into the antique tube amp sound, there's the microZOTL:
http://www.davidberning.com/microzotl.htm

It's a bit more expensive, but it's a tube amp. :-) *and* it's battery powered.

Calvin

If you're into the antique tube amp sound...

Can you really hear the difference between a tube amp and a transistor amp?

I have had people tell me that the tube amps are "warmer" sounding, but frankly I've never been able to hear it. If I want a warmer sound, I'll just bring up my 50-1000 Hz range a little bit with the EQ, and back off a bit anything over 5000 Hz.

Or maybe I just don't "get it" and am not the audiophile I pretend to be...

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

In reply to:

---

Can you really hear the difference between a tube amp and a transistor amp?

I have had people tell me that the tube amps are "warmer" sounding, but frankly I've never been able to hear it. If I want a warmer sound, I'll just bring up my 50-1000 Hz range a little bit with the EQ, and back off a bit anything over 5000 Hz.

---

Perhaps the warmth comes from cathode heaters glow shining through the window, obviously the most important part of the design...

Now, I do seem to remember some kind of explanation featuring tubes producing odd parasite harmonics, and transistors even (or vice versa), and human auditory system (probably brain more than ear itself) more sensitive to one than other.... or something like that. To me, this almost goes into the same cathegory as one-way speaker cables and vibration-insulated digital components, but again, being experimental physicist by training, I am willing to accept the results of a well-designed experiment...

Cheers!

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Electronically, tube components usually have different gains and transfer functions from transistors. However, as a designer, you usually take this into account and design around the characteristics of the devices you choose to use. Any competent engineer should be able to produce (within a given abstract specification) two amps of (say) the same output performance in terms of wattage, or THD, or RMS power figures. So in theory, you could have two amps back to back with the same spec, but using different technologies to build them

Would they sound different? I woud be inclined to say (given the above criteria) no, they shouldn't. I won't bet my shirt on it, though - as an example, I have always preferred the sound of a tube based guitar amp over transistor amps without being able to say why; in the house I have never listened to anything other than transistorised systems, so I can't comment.

I think there is an indefinable quality of tone to tube amps, and as an electronics engineer I should be able to explain why, and I can't. Maybe I'm not as hot as I thought I was...

This debate has actually been raging on and off in the pages of Wireless World (an influential semi-professional UK electronics magazine) for some 30 years, and nobody (to my knowledge) has come up with an irrefutable answer.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

as an example, I have always preferred the sound of a tube based guitar amp over transistor amps without being able to say why

I'll tell you why, and give a specific technical reason. And also why the reason for this preference is totally unrelated to consumer audio equipment.

Electric guitar amplifiers are often overdriven, to create a deliberately distorted rock sound. When you clip a peak on a tube amplifier, the very nature of the technology causes those clipped peaks to become rounded off at the corners, producing a smoother, and yes, warmer tone to the distortion. There is a very distinct difference between the sound of a tube overdrive and a solid-state overdrive. This difference can be clearly heard, even by non-audiophiles.

If you don't overdrive the amplifier (say, for instance, you're trying to get a clean, Mark-Knopfler-esque kind of a sound), then this doesn't enter the equation, and there's little advantage to a tube amplifier. In fact, I've got a rather advanced rack-mount effects unit for my guitar, and it employs the 12ax7 tubes only for its overdrive circuit, and runs completely digital and solid-state for all its other functions.

The reason this doesn't apply to consumer audio gear is because, if you're using the gear properly, you aren't pushing it into overdrive. The only time consumer audio gear should clip is if you're pushing it beyond its specs.

Now, this is not to say that tube gear isn't better for consumer audio. I haven't personally compared tube and solid-state gear in the consumer audio domain. There are probably advantages to consumer tube gear. I just wanted to tell you why you always preferred a tube guitar amp.

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

Are you guys nuts?

---

Totally barking mate.

Bear in mind though that this is a work environment. I'm being paid to do something other than listen to music. The office is also rather hostile with regard to background noise anyway, so it really doesn't seem worth while spending decent money there.

My home and car, however, are different stories.

Nick.


--
18Gb blue (now AR red) - s/n 080000299 (original queue position 8724)

It's just a tendency to distort the signal along odd or even harmonics. An odd harmonic is akin to playing things "in key" and the even harmonics is "out of key" so that music played on amps will have the signal distort ever so slightly along those harmonics. So a tube amp, even though much detail is not reproduced, because it causes the sound to be more "on key" sounds a little better than an integrated amp that makes it ever so slightly out of key (even harmonic).

Calvin

I had a chance to stop by the local audiophile store to do an a-b test with an expensive integrated vs tube amp on some expensive speakers. They were all quite nice sounding, the tube amp made me smile though.

Calvin

You have at least two options if you want to use bigger headphones. One is to get a pair of powered speakers with a headphone jack, there are lots of these on the market. Another is a dedicated headphone amplifier, for example the Edcor 2020.

I did finally buy one of these amps. I was tickeled most by this from the operating instructions.

"We know you are going to look inside. Please unplug the AC adaptor prior to removing the 4 small screws on the back cover. Now peer inside and admire the creative design and the solid construction...."

I just find my self wishing they hadn't used the same diameter jack for the AC input as is found for the audio input. (bad things happen when you plug the ac into the buss input) I'm waiting now for the digi-key order with a couple of new op-amps. Those chips are all socketed so, after I replace a couple of $0.60 parts, it will live again. I'm not impressed that the chips are socketed, the ac jack should not have been compatable with the audio inputs.

Glenn

I did finally buy one of these amps.

How does it sound?

Sorry to hear you let the smoke out...

Borislav

Sound wise, it's pretty good.
The case is mostly plastic except for the backplate (alum). Its powered with an AC source. Inside is what I take to be an isolation transformer, a diode bridge and filter caps. This produces both +/- 12volts DC to the audio board. One edge of the transformer core is in close proximity to the backplate. When I lay my hand against the backplate, an AC hum is coupled into the audio. Laying one finger against the RCA shield stops it. I suspect that if the case was all aluminum this wouldn't happen.

It's larger than I expected, two of them are the same size as the empeg itself.

As I mentioned in another post, the AC input is a 3.5mm mono plug. There is a risk of plugging this into one of the 3.5mm stereo jacks (3). I recommend extra caution here. For my self, I'm going to void the warrenty an change the jack. My Digi-Key bill is now half the cost of the amp.

Figured I see if anyone has tried this. http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/3399.html

It appears to be a small amp for headphones, and might work well to sit in the pouch in the empeg carying case. Just wondering if it's enough to drive some of the larger headphones. For $20, it's a cheap investment that may be useful.