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<sigh> So much to cover here. First, it isn't a matter of protecting Walmart from losing a hair trimmer. It's about expecting more from ourselves. It about doing the right thing, even if there is a risk.


I guess my point is that it isn't that black and white. You can say it is but it isn't for most people. Most people will chose their family over stopping the $15 thief if there's a chance of losing life or limb. I agree man, it IS about expecting more from ourselves, but when you say cut and dry that if you didn't do something you are somehow instantly a coward is pushing it. There's not doing something because you just plain don't give a crap if the guy gets away with it or doesn't, and there's not doing something because the risk involved to yourself out weighs the benefit to society in stopping the guy. And weighing that risk is every persons decision to make. For you it's obviously easy, you've been in fights, you can probably handle yourself, with that comes confidence. For someone who hasn't, then that line is in a completely different place no matter how much good they WANT or BELIEVE they should do. When it's futile it's futile.

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Second, I live in Denver, in the city, not the suburbs. I used to live in Columbus, Georgia, and I'm originally from the Syracuse area of NY. So I understand what you're talking about. But it doesn't matter. The point remains the same... but again, it doesn't matter. You have to do what's right, Loren.


And again I say it's not that cut and dry for most people and not because of lack of will. No doubt all of us WANT to do what's right. In any situation where you can do something that's "right", then agreed, you should.

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Loren.... you should (based on what I've had to say about politics on the board) that that is ridiculous. My roommate is still laughing from reading that line. Soooooo not how I'm wired. I would be there in Canada drinking a beer with you and Mark, unless I agreed with the war. (Hint: I don't.)


I wasn't speaking specifically to the current "war" at all, it just occurred to me that your argument sounded along the vein of an idealistic soldier. I didn't mean to reference either end of the political spectrum either. This point could easily spin off into another huge topic so I'll just skip it and concede the point.

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It's not idealism unless you don't practice it. And it has nothing to do with being ballsy. Hell, sometimes I scare the hell out of myself, but I have to try to do what's right.


So your saying it's a good idea to do incredibly risky things just under the guise of doing right? We could play a logic game of taking that to it's extreme but I doubt you'd agree with it at it's limits, which is why I call it idealistic. You can't say you'd throw yourself in front of a gun to prevent a thug from stealing a pack of gum. That is idealism. Everything in between has everything to do with being ballsy. It has to do with your personal level and ABILITY to actually affect the situation.

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Loren, I'm not calling any one a pussy for being scared. Being scared is a natural human response. Hell, that's why we have the amygdala (the Almond of AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!) I'm just taking issue with the back slapping "you did the right thing" party. It's not the right thing.


I see your point. It just irks me when someone makes black and white arguments out of something that clearly isn't. In this particular situation, if you think Jon should have done something, then that's all you have to say. But using this as an example of how everyone should ALWAYS do something when they see a wrong isn't reality, despite how much we'd all like it to be.
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