As Brad bemoans, work causes me to fall way behind (on a thread that I started!). So I respond in summary fashoin here.....
Brad:

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Let me regroup and respond in a bit... I'm not online during the day anymore, so that makes it hard.

Tell me about it. I saw all of this posting to the BBS on Friday and then I had to....work....and socialize!

JeffS:

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I do believe we should have gone into Iraq.

Why? And do you acknowledge any downside?

canuckinLA:

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I honestly don't think Bush is evil, either. I think he's naive, petulant, has a competitive streak a mile long, and as a result, is easily manipulated by his staff as a result. I think he's in waaaay over his head.

If the gent we regarded as the local party animal/buffoon got totallysh*tfaced, drove their SUV onto the Interstate the wrong way and killed my wife/brother/sister/son/daughter, I might not think of them as the embodiment of evil, but, boy, would I hate them. What to make of the party boy who sends one thousand young people (and some thousands of Iraquis) to their deaths with an AWOL crocodile's tears and a summary "Gee, it's tough."? I might not think they are evil as in Hitler evil, but hate? Easy.

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I'm sure he's a very personable fellow, and that I'd like him if we had met before he got into politics.

Many people say this, but I can't see it. What charming sobriquet would Shrub invent for you? "Hey, puck-buddy!" Me? "Hey, Salmon Boy!" Maybe recent events have just poisoned my mind, but I think I would find his frat boy's company nauseating. Better to spend a weekend locked in a sweat lodge with Rob Voisey!!!

wfaulk:

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I am positive that Bush's faith is a fraud.

I would certainly be willing to entertain this notion..... I have been interested, though, to listen to Texan observers like Wayne Slater (no Bush fan, author of "Bush's Brain" -- about Rove/Bush) note how they *do* think that Bush's policies are truly faith-driven on some (sincere?) level. Not that this makes me feel much better!! If "dry-drunk" Bush finds religion and takes to (sincerely) reading the Bible every AM so that he can feel more self-satisfied with the righteousness of his wacky actions and that, somehow or other, Divine Guidance is at his elbow keeping him on the Right Course, should I feel better because he is sincere? Not much.

Amazing, though, how convenient it has been historically for various religious folk to rape, pillage, take power, profiteer, enjoy their dividend coupons, et cetera, when they are assured that it is all in the name of The Big Guy. Sincerity, schmincerity. Let us judge deeds.


wfaulk:

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Christian-owned plumbing.

SE_Sport_Driver:

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That comment, and other about Americans who support Bush as being "brainwashed" implying that they are of weak mind is why most conservatives view many liberals as elitists.

I included one snippet from Bitt because it "said it all" to me: Christian-owned plumbing. I have encountered several merchants (somebody who I was going to have do some canvas for my boat...a moving company...a painting outfit) who gave me an estimate for work and their business card. I looked at the business card and there was that Christian fish (somewhat disguised in one case). I did not do business with them and I let them know why. What does the fish say? It says "You can trust me, I'm a Christian!" I can not help but infer what else it says -- it says "you just can't trust those other folks (like Jim the atheist!) as much". That pisses me off. And yes, when I see those cheap plastic fish on the backs of cars, I can't help but think the fish is singing "I'm going to Heaven! I'm going to Heaven!" And completely remarkable, the counterstrike Jesus fish eating the Darwin fish. What's up with that? Not very Christian if you ask me!

OK, so I'm an elitist.

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It's possible to be Christian and liberal.

Thank you. And I want to say that -- while I don't/didn't share their belief in supernatural deities -- there have been and are very religious people out there who I respect based on their actions and principals. Think Ita Ford, Maura Clark, Dorothy Kazel, Jean Donovan. I don't imagine that *any* of them would have put a plastic fish on their Jeep. I could be wrong.

tanstaafl:

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Hearken back to the Crusades for an example of where that mindset can lead one...

Hearken back? This *is* the Crusades!

webroach:

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"I believe God want's me to be president..."

Again, how handy.

As Arianna Huffington said: A classic "dry drunk".